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    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010
    biggrin That's exactly his style.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010
    LSH wrote
    Timmer wrote
    I've always heard nothing but good concerning fans who've met Chris Young, he seems like a really sound bloke.


    Me too, he's on my pub list. He sent me signed copies of his scores for The Core and Entrapment about 6 or 7 years ago. On the cover of Entrapment he had written:
    "I met Sean Connery on this one. He didn't have many nice things to say about John Barry." shocked


    Hmmmm? I wonder what Connery said about Barry? He also had a dig at David Arnold's Bond scores saying they were crap.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorRoy
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2010
    Christodoulides wrote
    Thor wrote
    It's a good interview, but it takes, like, FOREVER, to load. Can't believe it's all my connection.


    It's Horner's ego.


    NO, IT'S NOT THAT! It's because it take up something like 2GB !! smile
  1. Christodoulides wrote
    The man's a great crowd-pleaser and the level of knowledge but most importantly his personality, humour, it and confidence are as good as his music. Horner, as a man (not talking about his music) looks and acts like a silly fanboy next to him.


    At the GSPO concert in LA the other week, as the conductor was introducing his upcoming performance of Rosza's score for El Cid, he mistakenly identified Rozsa as a Russian composer.

    Instantly, a voice shouted out from the crowd "HUNGARIAN!". It was Chris Young, who was in the audiencer watching his score for Creation being performed. smile
  2. Roy wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Thor wrote
    It's a good interview, but it takes, like, FOREVER, to load. Can't believe it's all my connection.


    It's Horner's ego.


    NO, IT'S NOT THAT! It's because it take up something like 2GB !! smile


    Yeah, I just noticed because my bandwidth meter just keeps on counting up, but it's pretty lame the video won't start playing before it has been totally loaded completely onto your hard drive. In the year 2010 that's totally inexcusable. angry
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    DreamTheater wrote
    Roy wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Thor wrote
    It's a good interview, but it takes, like, FOREVER, to load. Can't believe it's all my connection.


    It's Horner's ego.


    NO, IT'S NOT THAT! It's because it take up something like 2GB !! smile


    Yeah, I just noticed because my bandwidth meter just keeps on counting up, but it's pretty lame the video won't start playing before it has been totally loaded completely onto your hard drive. In the year 2010 that's totally inexcusable. angry


    It's because they didn't enable streaming when they digitized the interview.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    What an age we live in.
  3. Well I managed to not wait until it was finished. I just have more pressing things to do right now... like catching z's !!! sleep
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    It's basically just Horner bullshitting about how he spent so long working on Avatar and generally just explaining how awesome he is.
  4. Yeah, I must say that I have a grudge with James Horner as a person. He keeps telling people how awesome and original he is (completely ignoring the fact that he rips himself off all the time), telling off directors he had problems with, because he couldn't get the point of a movie that was beyond his understanding (this is why when I criticized Horner's film approach I kept giving The Thin Red Line as an example, because he couldn't communicate with Malick and Zimmer could without major problems. Zimmer *still* speaks of Malick in a very friendly way and appreciates that process).
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    Jon Broxton wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    The man's a great crowd-pleaser and the level of knowledge but most importantly his personality, humour, it and confidence are as good as his music. Horner, as a man (not talking about his music) looks and acts like a silly fanboy next to him.


    At the GSPO concert in LA the other week, as the conductor was introducing his upcoming performance of Rosza's score for El Cid, he mistakenly identified Rozsa as a Russian composer.

    Instantly, a voice shouted out from the crowd "HUNGARIAN!". It was Chris Young, who was in the audiencer watching his score for Creation being performed. smile


    biggrin beer
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    Steven wrote
    It's basically just Horner bullshitting about how he spent so long working on Avatar and generally just explaining how awesome he is.


    His music is awesome anyway. wink Give the man an ice-cream.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorRoy
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Yeah, I must say that I have a grudge with James Horner as a person. He keeps telling people how awesome and original he is (completely ignoring the fact that he rips himself off all the time), telling off directors he had problems with, because he couldn't get the point of a movie that was beyond his understanding (this is why when I criticized Horner's film approach I kept giving The Thin Red Line as an example, because he couldn't communicate with Malick and Zimmer could without major problems. Zimmer *still* speaks of Malick in a very friendly way and appreciates that process).


    Well He doesn't speak about himself like that at all. He actaually take a position on this whole self-repetiting and that's fine for me. He speaks more obout film music in general. What a tendency Is right now in a movie buisness and what His Idea is about Music In Movie and that's fine too. And It's very manipulative from You to keep giving This TTRL example, especially that Your View on that Case Isn't the One and Only Right. Everybody would be mad on somebode Who have keep saying, during a Year of work, Your Music, Your approach Is OK and In the end started messing around In editing room, Throw Most Of What You Have Done Away Just to make really bad Movie. And Zimmer, well Zimmer would Have Nice Thing to Say If would Work with a Goat, He always suck up to everybody In His interviews. I don't Know If It's because He Knows How to promote Himself or He Is really that kind of person, Propably both.
    Anyway HORNER RULES (or at least His Music Does )l punk
  5. Do you always capitalize words in the middle of sentences like that? You trying to wear out your Shift key? Just asking... wink tongue
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
    • CommentAuthorRoy
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    Well, I'm not an english native speaker smile I thought nouns might be capitalize like that but I'm not sure. i have done My english education years ago wink oh, and when I address to someone like to You right know It's always nice to capitalize this wink but thanks You call My attention to this, I'll try not to abuse a shift key any more rolleyes
  6. Roy wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Yeah, I must say that I have a grudge with James Horner as a person. He keeps telling people how awesome and original he is (completely ignoring the fact that he rips himself off all the time), telling off directors he had problems with, because he couldn't get the point of a movie that was beyond his understanding (this is why when I criticized Horner's film approach I kept giving The Thin Red Line as an example, because he couldn't communicate with Malick and Zimmer could without major problems. Zimmer *still* speaks of Malick in a very friendly way and appreciates that process).


    Well He doesn't speak about himself like that at all. He actaually take a position on this whole self-repetiting and that's fine for me. He speaks more obout film music in general. What a tendency Is right now in a movie buisness and what His Idea is about Music In Movie and that's fine too. And It's very manipulative from You to keep giving This TTRL example, especially that Your View on that Case Isn't the One and Only Right. Everybody would be mad on somebode Who have keep saying, during a Year of work, Your Music, Your approach Is OK and In the end started messing around In editing room, Throw Most Of What You Have Done Away Just to make really bad Movie. And Zimmer, well Zimmer would Have Nice Thing to Say If would Work with a Goat, He always suck up to everybody In His interviews. I don't Know If It's because He Knows How to promote Himself or He Is really that kind of person, Propably both.
    Anyway HORNER RULES (or at least His Music Does )l punk


    My view on The Thin Red Line is the general one.

    Malick is a very specific director, having a very general education. He has his demands, which are pretty much anty-Hollywood in his approach (and Horner screams Hollywood from LA to Poland, sorry). Hiring Horner in the first place is a mistake (and rumors said that Horner and Zimmer exchanged directors - Da Vinci Code for New World). The question at hand is whether a composer can think out of (his?) the box or not. Horner can't really and it doesn't mean that it's the director's fault in this case. Malick wants additional meanings to the music, that's why he may replace Horner with Mozart and Wagner or Morricone with Saint-Saens. From 4 movies he's made, The Thin Red Line's score was the only one to be left relatively intact in the movie and the replacement was minimal (Faure's Requiem, Ives' An Unanswered Question).

    These are the facts.

    And Zimmer isn't sucking up in interviews to everybody. Have you ever read what Zimmer is talking about Pearl Harbor? I also know (for a fact, but I can't quote sources yet) that Zimmer hated Broken Arrow and Tears of the Sun. I wonder if the latter was due to the fact that the film was bad, due to severe arguments between the star and the director (Bruce Willis and Antoine Fuqua vowed never to work with each other again) or not. He *did* King Arthur after all. Zimmer is able to criticize his own work (read what he has to say about his action music and Days of Thunder). He also subtly stated that he knew The Fan wouldn't be too good, stating that after the Oscar for Lion King he purposefully signed for a bad movie.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Zimmer hated Broken Arrow

    Could you elaborate on this? I didn´t know it.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
  7. Well, not really hated, but he doesn't like some aspects.

    I can't elaborate. Yet wink
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I can't elaborate. Yet wink

    Ok, I´ll wait then smile
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    • CommentAuthorRoy
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote

    My view on The Thin Red Line is the general one.


    Not so sure about that and even if it would be since when the majority has always right?


    PawelStroinski wrote

    Malick is a very specific director, having a very general education. He has his demands, which are pretty much anty-Hollywood in his approach (and Horner screams Hollywood from LA to Poland, sorry). Hiring Horner in the first place is a mistake (and rumors said that Horner and Zimmer exchanged directors - Da Vinci Code for New World). The question at hand is whether a composer can think out of (his?) the box or not. Horner can't really and it doesn't mean that it's the director's fault in this case. Malick wants additional meanings to the music, that's why he may replace Horner with Mozart and Wagner or Morricone with Saint-Saens. From 4 movies he's made, The Thin Red Line's score was the only one to be left relatively intact in the movie and the replacement was minimal (Faure's Requiem, Ives' An Unanswered Question).

    These are the facts.


    NO, those are facts mixed up with opinions and presumptions. I gave You In my post few those kind of "facts" as well.
  8. The facts are that:

    1. Malick has specific demands from music.
    2. Terrence Malick is a philosopher in education. Almost did a Ph. D. but quit due to his supervisor and him not being eye to eye about the work.
    3. Malick tends to replace scores with classical music prominently. Biggest case to prove it before The New World - Days of Heaven - Morricone largely replaced with Camille Saint-Saens.
    4. James Horner said that Terrence Malick doesn't know shit about filmmaking except having nice visuals.
    5. James Horner's score was largely replaced by Mozart and Wagner in the movie.
    6. Hans Zimmer's score is left relatively intact (though an undisclosed part of the music was rescored in post-production, some part of it by Jeff Rona).
    7. It is replaced with classical music in some scenes (and one of them very prominent and Zimmer's original cue is on the score CD), but not to such an extent like Horner was.
    8. Hans Zimmer admits that the process of scoring The Thin Red Line was a bitch but speaks very warmly about it.

    Interpretations?
    Points 4 and 5 are because of point 2 - Horner couldn't get a philosopher
    Zimmer could deal with point 1 and Horner could not.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  9. PawelStroinski wrote
    The facts are that:

    1. Malick has specific demands from music.
    2. Terrence Malick is a philosopher in education. Almost did a Ph. D. but quit due to his supervisor and him not being eye to eye about the work.
    3. Malick tends to replace scores with classical music prominently. Biggest case to prove it before The New World - Days of Heaven - Morricone largely replaced with Camille Saint-Saens.
    4. James Horner said that Terrence Malick doesn't know shit about filmmaking except having nice visuals.
    5. James Horner's score was largely replaced by Mozart and Wagner in the movie.
    6. Hans Zimmer's score is left relatively intact (though an undisclosed part of the music was rescored in post-production, some part of it by Jeff Rona).
    7. It is replaced with classical music in some scenes (and one of them very prominent and Zimmer's original cue is on the score CD), but not to such an extent like Horner was.
    8. Hans Zimmer admits that the process of scoring The Thin Red Line was a bitch but speaks very warmly about it.

    Interpretations?
    Points 4 and 5 are because of point 2 - Horner couldn't get a philosopher
    Zimmer could deal with point 1 and Horner could not.


    Conclusion?

    Horner can't think out of the box. Zimmer can.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorRoy
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote

    Conclusion?

    Horner can't think out of the box. Zimmer can.


    Since when based on one example? ( a controversial one in which not everything Is as clear as You present it)

    Facts: Horner scored more that 120 movies. He worked with many different directors creating many different sounds and so on, so on. Why this one particular project would define Him? Well, It's just not.

    Opinion: Mallick tried to make from The New World His Nest The Thin Red Line. All those monologues, great visuals but it all, for me is meaningless. Bad editing destroyed that movie and that is what Horner couldn't understand and why He bashed Mallick for.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    Are you guys really having this discussion again? dizzy
  10. No, what Horner didn't understand was the philosophical part of the movie.

    How many movies did Horner go overboard with? How many movies did *Zimmer* go overboard with?

    How many times does a composer get hired not because of his musical abilities, but his commercial success?

    Where is Zimmer better than Horner (in what sort of movies, that is)

    Looking at that gives an interesting view of their careers. Horner's approach is all-round Hollywood. Taking a scene and emotionally going to the Himalaya with them. Braveheart needed that, Legends of the Fall needed that, Titanic needed that, Avatar needed that. Looking at this makes me realize that, as I initially thought, as heard in the movie, Avatar is Horner's best score since Enemy at the Gates. Horner *did* suffer from directors. Ron Howard is far from subtle (which works in The Missing, doesn't work in A Beautiful Mind). A potentially good score to Windtalkers was re-edited to epic proportions and his full development of cues went to the toilet with that one. Windtalkers isn't a good movie, but music (due to John Woo's usage of the score, not that he didn't know Horner before, half of the "score" to The Killer is taken from Red Heat and not just ripping Red Heat, Woo used the original cues) isn't allowed to shine in it.

    When did Horner get the point of a smaller and deeper film most recently? (Haven't seen Boy in the Striped Pyjamas, which I love as an album, yet). House of Sand and Fog, where he was pushed to do it the way he did by the director, who basically came to his place, looked through his CDs and called basically all of them (his biggest successes including!) crap. That's what the director says at least. But the score, while retaining Horner's dramatic sensibilities in a far subtler way he does usually, works very well there. Yes, in the last scene it becomes a bit too much (the scenes are strong enough), but Perelman blamed it completely on his own lack of experience and this explanation is good enough for me.

    Where did Horner do wrong with a score? Where a subtle approach is called upon and he is either left loose or simply unable to go differently than he usually does. Case in point is my favorite Horner score in film. It's not Braveheart (where the music is amazing too), but the excercise at subtle musical storytelling called Apollo 13. Did Horner get the movie? Totally. I have a theory that his approach related mostly to the way the movie was edited. Thanks to it the movie never feels disjointed in the constant intercutting before the astronauts in space and the Mission Control struggle to get them home alive. Horner took his synchronization ideas from the editing and it works marvelously with a great (the best?) use of the modern thriller convention which next year (Ransom!) was used for the final time until Flightplan called for it with a much more dissonant edge.

    Horner does wrong in small dramas where he goes completely loose. He gets simply too intense. Not every movie is Legends of the Fall or Avatar, simply. Horner did ruin the end of A Beautiful Mind for me, I had small issues with Perfect Storm in the movie, not because the score was too intense (though the final scenes did get cheesy, partly because of the score, partly because of the writing), but because he overly relied on few basic melodic ideas, repeated ad infinitum. An earlier example of a score that ruined the movie for me, I avoided the album for a long time because of that? The Pelican Brief. That score was too brutal for me in its action music, but I love it on the album.

    Where Zimmer goes wrong? When he either relies to his own tricks (constantly repeating some stylistical ideas and because of it basically having uniform sound for a genre) or when he misunderstands intensity of a scene or goes too much with one basic idea of his understanding of the film. Does he go overboard? Yes, he does at times and in one case it was a bit weird, because the score in general is very restrained.

    First score he went overboard with: Last Samurai. One of my favorite Zimmer albums and one of my favorite Zimmer *ideas* of a movie. He decided to take the "Dances with the Wolves" approach in a more restrained way. But? The theme (great on album) is too cheesy for the movie. AND The end is too intense, almost makes the movie unbearable to me.

    Second score - we discussed it already. Da Vinci Code. He took the movie to heights of hilariousness when he approached 3 guys talking in a house as if the world was coming to an end.

    Zimmer makes mistakes too, but as I talked with a friend of mine. Maybe in the wrong places, but he still searches for a good approach to particular movie. Horner still thinks he is all-best in the world.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    Reading all this made my red line ache.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorRoy
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2010
    Zimmer always talked about how He looked for new sound, new approach but usually it ends up the same as usually. As for Horner smaller Movies, He always says He is looking for them and as for me He does them great. Your examples are fine but I don't Know how the end of A Beautiful Mind could Have benn destroyed by Horner and I think thats the general opinion. Field of Dreams another graat exampl how Horner scores smaller pictures, He even went against producers who wanted big orchestral score. Dad, Man without a Face, Spitfire Grill, House of Cards, Life Before Her Eyes, Iris those are all nice, more-or-less intimate scores sound great with the movie. So when subtle approach is called upon and He does do exactly what it demand.

    As For Zimmer and His The Last Samurai, Zimmer killed the movie with action music which sounds like poor mix of His early 90' with Gladiator and Pearl Harbor.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2010 edited
    Anyone interesting is a 3CD FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION PROMO of AVATAR!

    DISC 1 - 21 Tracks - Running Time: 54 mins
    DISC 2 - 21 Tracks - Running Time: 63 mins
    DISC 3 - 9 Tracks - Running Time: 30 mins

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  11. No thanks -- with a trading list over 300+ titles, I already got plenty of CRAP.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2010 edited
    No thanks! Although I'm sure it would make a lot of people happy.