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      CommentAuthorFalkirkBairn
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2008 edited
    Maybe it's coincidence that this 13th game is one that's devoted to the use of the Dies Irae (Day of Wrath) in film music.

    I've always wondered what scores have used this piece of music as part of the composer's vision for their own music. So, here's 20 examples from scores spanning 74 years. Hopefully people will find the clips interesting - as well as being not too difficult.

    There's 15 composers featured in the clips with one composer appearing 3 times. And the clips are in chronological order.

    I'll put up some hints in a couple of days.

    As usual, PM me with answers as many times as you like.

    http://www.maintitles.net/music/gts/alan/3/DiesIrae.zip

    Clip 01 – The original score manuscript were used to help reconstruct a restored version of this movie. The movie over the years has had more than one score composed for it – one which won a “Razzie” for “worst (new) score”.

    Clip 02 – A fine example of the Hollywood (inaccurate) historical drama featuring two lead lovers who were married at the time this film was made. The year this film was released was a fruitful year for this composer. Five movies were released (including this one) that featured scores from this composer – one was nominated for an Oscar (but not this one),

    Clip 03 – The first of 3 entries for this composer, this movie is from a genre not frequently visited by this composer. The introductory strings segment is a big clue. Both original cues and re-recorded music have been released over the years.

    Clip 04 – The martial snare drums should be a big clue for this genre score. The composer's style shouts out – to those familiar with the composer's other work. And anyone who's paid attention to my previous games will have heard this clip before. This score was Oscar-nominated (one of 8 nominations he received in his career).

    Clip 05 – A classic score with a first-class re-recording release. This composer apparently extensively “self-borrows” from other scores. This composer's second entry in this list.

    Clip 06 – Another historical drama, this score earned the composer Oscar and Golden Globe nominations for his work. Favourite quote from the movie? “Here's my royal foot on your royal buttocks!”

    Clip 07 – A psychedelic version of Dies Irae from a composer featured twice in these clips. The complete score has recently been released and features this track in an uncut version. Is there any other composer who can be so inventive?

    Clip 08 – This composer's creativity is amply illustrated in this score for this unsettling movie. This movie is reportedly the only one produced by a well-known studio in this year. It would be five years before this composer would be rewarded with his only Oscar success.

    Clip 09 – This score garnered this composer an Oscar nomination – one of two nominations that year. The script benefited from some suggestions from the composer. The original score has yet to have an official release.

    Clip 10 – There are at least a couple of Welsh connections in this movie, including the headline actor. This composer has not composed for film since the mid-1990s but has his own company that is named after a hill near his birthplace.

    Clip 11 – This composer's electronic score was largely discarded by this famous director. This composer has an interest in the psycho-acoustic effects of sound and is a keen solar eclipse chaser.

    Clip 12 – One of the themes used in this film was actually composed for a movie released the previous year. Recently released in expanded form, difficulties surrounding licensing of the songs featured in this movie meant that video release was delayed for several years.

    Clip 13 – Oscar-nominated score. One of this composer's greatest scores (IMO). No one should need any further clues as to the identity of this score...

    Clip 14 – ...or this one!! But the score is shouting out for a loving re-recording!!

    Clip 15 – Filmed in Bavaria, The Vatican and Yorkshire this foreign-language movie features a score from a composer already featured here. And, yes, the score features this composer's distinctive instrument.

    Clip 16 – If you don't recognise this score then you're likely to find it via a cue title search! The wailing brass should be a big giveaway!

    Clip 17 – This composer scored two movies this year that were adapted from works from two literary giants. Quote from production crew member observing actor discussion: “Moses telling Jesus how to play the Devil”.

    Clip 18 – The score was an Oscar-winner. I believe this animated feature led to a very successful musical.

    Clip 19 – This European TV score features a score from a composer whose distinctive style has delighted for almost 5 decades. The composer's son composed music (on a later project) for the same director in 2006.

    Clip 20 – From a TV animation series (seven episodes over six years) the score features the talents of the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir. The composer may be best-known for composing a score for a violent live-action from 2000.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2008
    I should be able to get two of these easily then. smile
  1. Aha! An excellent idea for a game...
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorStavroula
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2008
    Nice set of clips!Dark films they must be!I thing some writing styles ring some bells!I know that you'll most probably say that in the hints but have you included film versions of musicals as well?
    Whatever you gaze rests on,do not use your vision, but the eyes of your soul...She knows better...
  2. Stavroula wrote
    I think some writing styles ring some bells! I know that you'll most probably say that in the hints but have you included film versions of musicals as well?

    I tried where possible to include some hints of writing styles in the clips try help with more difficult scores. As far as I am aware I have not included film versions of musicals - though there is one clip where I'm not sure what came first; the film or the musical!! There are 3 clips from animations.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  3. We have a new leader!!

    Demetris - 4 points beer
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2008
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    We have a new leader!!

    Demetris - 4 points beer


    Go D punk

    D to win! punk punk punk biggrin
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2008
    YEAH! BEAT THAT NOW!!!!!!! punk punk
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2008
    Great topic! Will participate one of the following days. Just had an exam today, so I want to chill out completely first.

    Peter smile
  4. Hope that the exam went well!

    I'm almost tempted to give Demetris triple points for sending in suggestions before any hints are provided!! I'll put up some hints later.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorFalkirkBairn
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2008 edited
    I've added some hints to the initial post.

    I was hoping that more people would send in some guesses before I had to resort to providing clues. They are not that difficult!!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  5. I will be making some guesses tonight! Sorry for the delay. I don't want to miss out on another game. dizzy
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  6. More guesses come rolling in:

    Bregt - 11 points
    Demetris - 4 points
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  7. Bregt's reign at the top was short-lived:

    Southall - 22 points
    Bregt - 11 points
    Demetris - 4 points
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  8. BTW, clip 14 is a bit on the long side - especially when the Dies Irae reference is so short. But the conclusion of this tracks is such a punk moment I just had to leave it in!!

    And, does anyone else get a sense of Shore's Lord of The Rings in the first 10 seconds of clip 15? It's that descending muted brass figure that's repeated that does it. Michael - or any other LotR music "scholar" - can you remember if anyone has talked of Shore using Dies Irae references in the scores?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  9. There's a particular motif that the original ragtag group of theme-spotters saw that one of our company (Marilynn Miller, or 'magpie' as she was nicknamed - she has a website devoted to the music of the trilogy) called 'the Dies Irae' motif. I didn't know what the Dies Irae was at the time, so it sounded as good a name as any. When I eventually heard the Dies Irae, I thought - yeah, that sounds like LOTR.

    Doug Adams answered my question about this recently:

    >>>5. By not including a particular theme from LOTR, are the podcast team hinting that a Dies Irae reference was not Howard Shore's intention?>>>

    Hinting? I’m screaming it from the mountaintop, stone tablets in hand! (How’s that for religious imagery? )

    Shore did not intend the Descending Third motif as any sort of Dies Irae quote… in fact, I’ve often wondered if it’s the black-hooded riders, more than the music itself, that conjure this association. There’s simply not THAT much in common, musically speaking. Both lines tend to begin on the third scale degree and somehow descend. But then, so does the opening to Beethoven’s Fifth. In scale degrees:

    DIES IRAE: 3 2 3 1 2 7 1 1

    SHORE: 3 1 2 7 1 6 7 5

    BEETHOVEN: 3 3 3 1 2 2 2 7

    Looking at it this way, the Shore would appear to have more in musically common with the Beethoven that the Dies Irae. Obviously, it’s once again unintentional.



    John Takis (Wedge, writer of some STAR WARS/ HARRY POTTER music articles among others) added:

    As for the "descending thirds" motif from LOTR, I personally don't see any significant musical similarities. In being measured, generally downward-moving, elegant lines, they are perhaps "simpatico", but I wouldn't say the LOTR piece is "inspired by" or "based on" the Dies Irae


    I don't want to comment too much on the history of Dies Irae in film music, since it may involve giving away answers to clips (which I haven't heard yet).
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  10. Thanks for the comments so far.

    There's something I want to generally ask after this game is finished that concerns the use of Dies Irae in films so maybe you could expand on what you have already said then?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  11. Indeed. I would have said more than what I said above, but I felt if I started discussing other examples, I'd probably start giving away your answers! smile
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  12. franz_conrad wrote
    Indeed. I would have said more than what I said above, but I felt if I started discussing other examples, I'd probably start giving away your answers! smile

    Probably!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  13. Just out of interest, which Dies Irae is it based on, Verdis? Mozarts? The original poem or someone else entirelys?

    I might make a no doubt futile attempt when I get home this evening, but I doubt it.
    If in doubt, let the wookie win
  14. FalkirkBairn wrote

    Clip 17 – This composer scored two movies this year that were adapted from works from two literary giants. Quote from production crew member observing actor discussion: “Moses telling Jesus how to play the Devil”.


    I think it was actually 'the son of Moses telling Jesus how to play the Devil', and the story was related by Moses. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorFalkirkBairn
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2008 edited
    Update:

    Southall - 22 points
    Demetris - 13 points beer
    Bregt - 11 points
    Tommy_Boy - 10 points

    Demetris takes a second stab at the clips and shoots up the table. punk
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  15. Tim (not timmer) wrote
    Just out of interest, which Dies Irae is it based on, Verdis? Mozarts? The original poem or someone else entirelys?

    shame
    To be honest, I'm not sure. But I'm certain that there are others who know better than I do!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2008
    Originally it was some gregorian chant thing (aka. unknown author). But in my mind Berlioz is the guy I'll always identify with this melody:

    Starts at 3:23-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrezpUWI … re=related

    Peter smile
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2008
    "Dies Irae (Day of Wrath) is a famous thirteenth century Latin hymn thought to be written by Thomas of Celano. It is a medieval Latin poem, differing from classical Latin by its accentual (non-quantitative) stress and its rhymed lines. The meter is trochaic. The poem describes the day of judgment, the last trumpet summoning souls before the throne of God, where the saved will be delivered and the unsaved cast into eternal flames. The hymn is used as a sequence in the Roman Catholic Requiem Mass in the extraordinary form (1962 missal). It is not used in the ordinary form (1970) of the Roman Missal."

    quote from wikipedia
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  16. Things are cooking now:

    Southall - 22 points
    franz_conrad - 21 points
    Demetris - 13 points
    Bregt - 11 point
    Tommy_Boy - 10 points

    Michael puts a bit in for top place - with more points on the way...
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2008
    Hmm... looks like I might need to put in a second bid!
  17. Southall wrote
    Hmm... looks like I might need to put in a second bid!

    You didn't think that one sitting would be enough did you?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  18. Perhaps we can put James' LUCKY YOU promo back on the market for this playoff. Double or nothing? You stand to lose all your copies! biggrin
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  19. I'll be giving the answers to this game in about 24 hours. So if there is anyone else who wants to take part then I'd suggest submitting answers soon!!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn