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  1. HeeroJF wrote
    I wanted to jump onto this discussion and join the general mourning for the sad direction Joel McNeely's career has taken over the past 10 years.

    What happened here? He showed so much promise. How did he not get better offers after all his achievements?

    Everyone mentions SotE, but not much more can be added once pretty much everyone agrees it's a friggin masterpiece. But what about scores like Virus, The Avengers, Gold Diggers, Wild America, not to mention the jaw-dropping work on Young Indiana Jones? Even without SotE, those alone should add up to a kick-ass port-folio to impress any producer, I'd think...

    It's like he suffered the "John Scott syndrome", also known as the "Bill Conti phenomenon", or to a less extent the "Bruce Broughton effect". Except he got even LESS time to shine than these other brilliant artists... He truly was cut short.

    J-F


    Indeed all pretty amazing stuff, but I would add to that list Terminal Velocity, holding probably some of the most amazing action music ala John Williams to prove it

    He's indeed sorely missed sad
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008
    HeeroJF wrote
    I wanted to jump onto this discussion and join the general mourning for the sad direction Joel McNeely's career has taken over the past 10 years.

    What happened here? He showed so much promise. How did he not get better offers after all his achievements?

    Everyone mentions SotE, but not much more can be added once pretty much everyone agrees it's a friggin masterpiece. But what about scores like Virus, The Avengers, Gold Diggers, Wild America, not to mention the jaw-dropping work on Young Indiana Jones? Even without SotE, those alone should add up to a kick-ass port-folio to impress any producer, I'd think...

    It's like he suffered the "John Scott syndrome", also known as the "Bill Conti phenomenon", or to a less extent the "Bruce Broughton effect". Except he got even LESS time to shine than these other brilliant artists... He truly was cut short.

    J-F


    Eaten by the industry's circles and modern tendencies that want everything non-orchestral, non-complex, easy fast-food and rock-oriented.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008
    Is that why Brian Tyler is thriving and not Joel McNeely? Because he's proven he can do both orchestral energy (Annapolis) as well as rock-oriented fast-food (War)?

    I guess it's true. If they did Virus today, ten years later, they would probably insist on a rock-based score, and gloss over someone like McNeely.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008

    Indeed all pretty amazing stuff, but I would add to that list Terminal Velocity, holding probably some of the most amazing action music ala John Williams to prove it


    Aye.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
  2. HeeroJF wrote
    Is that why Brian Tyler is thriving and not Joel McNeely? Because he's proven he can do both orchestral energy (Annapolis) as well as rock-oriented fast-food (War)?

    I guess it's true. If they did Virus today, ten years later, they would probably insist on a rock-based score, and gloss over someone like McNeely.


    Maybe because Tyler is much more modern in his sound. If McNeely referred John Williams, Tyler is more into Hans Zimmer stylistically. And a beefed up and more complex version of the sound they like is what they look for sometimes, I guess.

    At least Herrmann is still fashionable.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008
    Welllll.... Herrmann is still fashionable among us.... but what of the public at large? This is a very good question: if Herrmann was still alive today, would he still be able to find a demand for his style?

    That's probably the reason why all those composers I mentioned are hard-pressed to find A-grade work these days: Broughton, Scott, Conti, and of course McNeely...

    Thank goodness Patrick Doyle survived this thinning-out of the orchestral composers ranks.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008 edited
    Pawel's assumption is pretty reasonable the way i see it.

    If you think about it, these "left-out's" like the above can occur due to the following simple things:

    1) Either you evolve with the times CLEVERLY in a Tyler kind of way as mentioned by Pawel above, i.e. be hip and modern but (if you have the musical knowledge and balls) at the same time keep it orchestral and musically meaningful (i.e. as in NOT like a pro tools / cubase child's play)
    2) If you don't have the skills, you end up imitating RC or actually end up in the lower streams of RC itself. Or directly imitate the greats and get a hit or two (i.e. Tyler Bates' 300)
    3) If you have the skills but choose to stay behind the times (quite rightly so, but still...) end up a wasted talent like SO many examples out there, sad cases all and while we are at the topic - McNeely himself.
    4) Have good P.R., as in REALLY, REALLY GOOD AND STRONG P.R which gets you through everything in Hollywood these days when your character helps a bit too (i.e. see Brian Tyler for instance). Otherwise if you wanna keep it good and low, you'll most probably end up forgotten and / or outside Hollywood.
    5) A combination of the above
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008 edited
    Is it just me or did John Scott ever strike anyone else as failing a little bit in the #4 category, as outlined by Christodoulides, above? Just from reading his notes on his CD inserts, he strikes me as a composer with a bit of an attitude and not tremendously great P.R., which is possibly to blame for him having fallen into obscurity. Shameful waste of superb talent...

    John Ottman, on the other hand, is supposed to be such a great guy. I don't doubt these things do help in a Hollywood career.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008
    I've seen a lot of people in my area (not film music, but all business is business) go down rapidly due to that "don't want to get involved, will keep it low and we see from there" attitude. Most of them are very good in what they do, it's just that their characters and ways aren't exactly echoing to other people's foreground thoughts.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008
    I'm involved in theater in my area, and I notice a lot of that, too. People willing to wear many hats and who display enthusiasm for projects catch companies' eyes. Divas, on the other hand, are quickly dismissed, even if they're friggin geniouses.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
  3. HeeroJF wrote
    Welllll.... Herrmann is still fashionable among us.... but what of the public at large? This is a very good question: if Herrmann was still alive today, would he still be able to find a demand for his style?

    That's probably the reason why all those composers I mentioned are hard-pressed to find A-grade work these days: Broughton, Scott, Conti, and of course McNeely...

    Thank goodness Patrick Doyle survived this thinning-out of the orchestral composers ranks.


    No, I mean Herrmann is FASHIONABLE with composers and directors. There is a kind of renaissance of his influences recently, as evidenced even in Da Vinci Code
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    HeeroJF wrote
    Welllll.... Herrmann is still fashionable among us.... but what of the public at large? This is a very good question: if Herrmann was still alive today, would he still be able to find a demand for his style?

    That's probably the reason why all those composers I mentioned are hard-pressed to find A-grade work these days: Broughton, Scott, Conti, and of course McNeely...

    Thank goodness Patrick Doyle survived this thinning-out of the orchestral composers ranks.


    No, I mean Herrmann is FASHIONABLE with composers and directors. There is a kind of renaissance of his influences recently, as evidenced even in Da Vinci Code


    Particularly in Banos The Machinist.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  4. Yeah, though I wanted to show that even a pop-inspired composer is influenced by Herrmann.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2008
    Ahh, okay. Granted.

    And most welcome! I thoroughly enjoy all Herrmannesque influences.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
  5. I think we can have faith in many recent composers, like Jane Antonia Cornish, Michael Giacchino and John Powell. They do bring some fresh air to the genre, with Cornish, because she brought back the Williamsesque (today it IS fresh) sound in fantasy scoring.

    Even if it was a Danish movie.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I think we can have faith in many recent composers, like Jane Antonia Cornish, Michael Giacchino and John Powell. They do bring some fresh air to the genre, with Cornish, because she brought back the Williamsesque (today it IS fresh) sound in fantasy scoring.

    Even if it was a Danish movie.


    Hey! You've got anything against Danes now?!?



    wink
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I think we can have faith in many recent composers, like Jane Antonia Cornish, Michael Giacchino and John Powell. They do bring some fresh air to the genre, with Cornish, because she brought back the Williamsesque (today it IS fresh) sound in fantasy scoring.

    Even if it was a Danish movie.


    MmMMMMMMM!!!! Danish lick
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  6. Thor wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I think we can have faith in many recent composers, like Jane Antonia Cornish, Michael Giacchino and John Powell. They do bring some fresh air to the genre, with Cornish, because she brought back the Williamsesque (today it IS fresh) sound in fantasy scoring.

    Even if it was a Danish movie.


    Hey! You've got anything against Danes now?!?



    wink


    No, rather against Hollywood biggrin
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2008
    Thor wrote

    Hey! You've got anything against Danes now?!?
    wink

    What about Claire Danes?
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2008 edited
    HeeroJF wrote
    Thor wrote

    Hey! You've got anything against Danes now?!?
    wink

    What about Claire Danes?


    Or Great Danes?.....all those teeth....brrrrrrrr sad
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2008 edited
    Timmer wrote
    HeeroJF wrote
    Thor wrote

    Hey! You've got anything against Danes now?!?
    wink

    What about Claire Danes?


    Or Great Danes?.....all those teeth....brrrrrrrr sad

    "Wroo said it Shwraggy!"
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
  7. Timmer wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I think we can have faith in many recent composers, like Jane Antonia Cornish, Michael Giacchino and John Powell. They do bring some fresh air to the genre, with Cornish, because she brought back the Williamsesque (today it IS fresh) sound in fantasy scoring.

    Even if it was a Danish movie.


    MmMMMMMMM!!!! Danish lick

    Indeed! lick
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  8. Keep to McNeely's subject, the man is already enough forgotten, we're not gonna forget him in this topic too angry
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeOct 5th 2008 edited
    LMAO!!!

    But you're right.

    Is anybody else aware that action music from Virus was used in a trailed for the anime "Blue Gender"? I was forced to see that trailed time after time, and that was before I had Virus. I remember telling myself "dang, that's some good music! Does that anime really have that kind of score??" But then imagine my surprise when I later picked up Virus and recognized the music. Obviously it's no secret that they use other scores to make trailers all the time, but I just didn't know they did that with anime DVD trailers, too.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2009 edited
    Joel posted on Facebook that the recording of Tinkerbell 2 has started. Of course, again I'm not expecting anything much on the soundtrack except a 5 min suite or something sad but if a longer release does come it'll be great. I'll try to ask him about it.
  9. DemonStar wrote
    Joel posted on Facebook that the recording of Tinkerbell 2 has started. Of course, again I'm not expecting anything much on the soundtrack except a 5 min suite or something sad but if a longer release does come it'll be great. I'll try to ask him about it.


    instead of Disney, Joel should score stuff like Iron Man or Outlander angry

    Man, why are the good ones always scoring crap or not at all, and the crappy scoring big movies?
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
    •  
      CommentAuthorelenewton
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2009
    Oh Outlander... what a great opportunity wasted in the lame hands of that clone drone...
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeApr 18th 2009
    Thomas Glorieux wrote
    DemonStar wrote
    Joel posted on Facebook that the recording of Tinkerbell 2 has started. Of course, again I'm not expecting anything much on the soundtrack except a 5 min suite or something sad but if a longer release does come it'll be great. I'll try to ask him about it.


    instead of Disney, Joel should score stuff like Iron Man or Outlander angry

    Man, why are the good ones always scoring crap or not at all, and the crappy scoring big movies?


    Both those scores are garbage, I agree Joel could've elevated them to brilliant levels. Missed chance sad
  10. Can someone confirm: at jwfan.net someone said McNeely has started scoring some of "American Dad" and that at least one episode has aired as him as the composer.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2009
    I can confirm as I watched an episode where his name appeared in the credits.