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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    Steven wrote
    Thor wrote
    Steven wrote
    An album that lasted a minute would be a pretty bad album if you asked me.


    Yeah, but that minute might be an excellent listening experience. And if it's a good representation of the entire score in the film, then why not?


    Anything lasting a minute and considered excellent would have the listener begging for more.


    I've gotta agree with Steven on that. A one minute release would be the dumbest release in the history of releases.


    Yeah, a bit extreme, of course, but if the score was very, very short in the first place - perhaps even centered entirely around one theme that pops up once or twice, then that single minute might be a good representation of it. And then pad out the album with other stuff.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2008
    Steven wrote
    Thor wrote
    Steven wrote
    An album that lasted a minute would be a pretty bad album if you asked me.


    Yeah, but that minute might be an excellent listening experience. And if it's a good representation of the entire score in the film, then why not?


    Anything lasting a minute and considered excellent would have the listener begging for more.


    Well, that's their problem. Personally, if I've had a good listening experience, I say "well, that was nice" and then put on something else. I don't go around thinking about potential more stuff of the same.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2008
    Then you're weird.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2008
    Steven wrote
    Then you're weird.


    Possibly, but that's another topic altogether. smile
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorPanthera
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    Well I just listened to United 93 again, and I like the release exactly how it is. The majority of the music is a build up to the last 10 minutes. It makes a decent background experience if you are multitasking, but I understand how it could be boring if you devoted all of your energy to listening to the music.
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008 edited
    Steven wrote
    HeeroJF wrote
    For the record: I only re-arrange tracks on a single CD: the expanded boot of Starship Troopers, because I feel these tracks are meant to be presented in chronological order as they appear in the film.


    What about all the other score albums with incorrect chronology? What if you had an album with 10 masterful, genius, breathtaking cues with 10 truly awful, dire, almost impossible to listen to cues played one after the other? Would you still listen to the album as it was intended?


    Like U-571 you mean? I think that's a perfect example. All the fabulous action/patriotic tracks were put in the first two-thirds of this album, leaving the last twenty minutes or so to go on with uninterrupted suspense material which, while good, doesn't hold a candle to the beginning of the CD. But the issue here is: I haven't seen that movie! dizzy I might be inclined to re-arrange the tracks in chronological order if I knew what that order was.

    Oh, and on another side-note: I've been known to put some of the Disney musicals in chronological order too, in order to have more balanced score-song-score-song experience, like Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Steven wrote
    Anything lasting a minute and considered excellent would have the listener begging for more.

    If MT's ladies were involved in this discussion, I'm sure they would jump on the wagon here bearing testimony that anything lasting a minute and considered excellent WOULD indeed have them begging for more! wink wink wink wink wink wink
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    I'd rather have a large amount of score from which I can make my picks and make a custom playlist rather than 4 minutes of score which is all that's available. But then again, just my opinion wink
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008 edited
    Anthony wrote
    Steven wrote
    Thor wrote
    Steven wrote
    An album that lasted a minute would be a pretty bad album if you asked me.


    Yeah, but that minute might be an excellent listening experience. And if it's a good representation of the entire score in the film, then why not?


    Anything lasting a minute and considered excellent would have the listener begging for more.


    I've gotta agree with Steven on that. A one minute release would be the dumbest release in the history of releases.


    Don't put ideas in Thomas Newman's head. And there's also the stupidity behind people who name silence as their genius compositions or make 6-chord pieces which will performed once when 16 years pass in total and people name them groundbreaking.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    As for the OH-SO-TIRED theme of the complete vs chronological vs whatever:

    Just a friendly advice to the people beating it too much with the scores that have TOO MUCH music on their CD releases:

    1) Get the much-loaded-with-music CD
    2) open winamp
    3) import the cd as a whole
    4) press "delete" as much as you like

    Make your lives easier. kiss
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    DemonStar wrote
    I'd rather have a large amount of score from which I can make my picks and make a custom playlist rather than 4 minutes of score which is all that's available. But then again, just my opinion wink


    And it's the correct one.
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    Steven wrote
    DemonStar wrote
    I'd rather have a large amount of score from which I can make my picks and make a custom playlist rather than 4 minutes of score which is all that's available. But then again, just my opinion wink


    And it's the correct one.


    Cheers, mate! beer
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    As for the OH-SO-TIRED theme of the complete vs chronological vs whatever:

    Just a friendly advice to the people beating it too much with the scores that have TOO MUCH music on their CD releases:

    1) Get the much-loaded-with-music CD
    2) open winamp
    3) import the cd as a whole
    4) press "delete" as much as you like

    Make your lives easier. kiss


    Yeah, that would have been nice in a perfect world, but it obviously depends on two things:

    1) That I actually have the stamina, time and will to do this every single time I load a CD (which I obviously don't) and more importantly:
    2) That I'm a record producer or composer, which I unfortunately am not. My "mix" would be totally random and not as good as a real album producer or musically savvy person arranging the tracks for me (which should be the MINIMUM of what we should expect when purchasing a soundtrack CD).

    To me, it would be like someone giving me a Mona Lisa painting in black & white and a bucket of painting, saying "here, fill in the colours yourself!".
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    2) Not at all like that Thor. You know that. 1) is 10 seconds in total. Not a lot stamina required for this i think wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    As for the OH-SO-TIRED theme of the complete vs chronological vs whatever:

    Just a friendly advice to the people beating it too much with the scores that have TOO MUCH music on their CD releases:

    1) Get the much-loaded-with-music CD
    2) open winamp
    3) import the cd as a whole
    4) press "delete" as much as you like

    Make your lives easier. kiss

    Very good lesson, except for one little aspect of Step 4.

    "As much as you like" is not necessarily the same thing as "as much as you should". Too much good music gets overlooked and never gets a chance to grow on people properly by hitting that magic too much.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    So actually, Thors problem isn't badly produced albums, but laziness. tongue wink
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    2) Not at all like that Thor. You know that. 1) is 10 seconds in total. Not a lot stamina required for this i think wink


    Just enough to make it a nuissance. I want a FINISHED and if you'll excuse the pun - COMPLETE product. I don't want to finish the product myself, especially not if we're talking about the ARTFORM that album producing is. Everyone can do it, but not everyone can do it well. I'll let the album producers do what they do best and MAKE soundtrack albums, and then I'll reserve my right to criticize it afterwards based on my own criteria.

    It amuses me that pro-C&C'ers automatically assume that the easy solution for non-C&C'ers is to "make your own record" once you're served all the raw material on a disc!
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008 edited
    Picky. tongue

    I know what you mean. I'm not as fussed as you are as it gives me something to do. For example - Christmas day is probably going to be spent re-arranging the Indy box set and sorting out the weird edits. cheesy
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    To me, to steal and expound upon Thor's initial metaphor, a C&C album is like someone handing me thousands of buckets of paint in every conceivable colour in the world, a broom and tell me to paint the Mona Lisa...
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    Picky. tongue

    I know what you mean. I'm not as fussed as you are as it gives me something to do. For example - Christmas day is probably going to be spent re-arranging the Indy box set and sorting out the weird edits. cheesy


    Well, good that you keep yourself occupied, Anthony, but I don't have the amount of time that you do, nor would I want to spend it on such things when there are so many other things to do. I'm one of those weirdos who really just LISTEN to my soundtrack albums and that's it. wink
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008 edited
    We know you don't have the time you party animal you. tongue
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    We know you don't have the time you party animal you. tongue


    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    Good to see you looking serious for a change, Thor.

    wink
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    Thor wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    We know you don't have the time you party animal you. tongue


    I have no idea what you are talking about.


    biggrin Show us the OTHER pics now, my friend. beer beer punk
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    HeeroJF wrote
    "As much as you like" is not necessarily the same thing as "as much as you should". Too much good music gets overlooked and never gets a chance to grow on people properly by hitting that magic too much.

    Oops! "Button". I meant "magic button." Just re-read myself. shame
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    Thor wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    We know you don't have the time you party animal you. tongue


    I have no idea what you are talking about.


    Are you sure? biggrin wink
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008 edited
    Anthony wrote
    Thor wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    We know you don't have the time you party animal you. tongue


    I have no idea what you are talking about.


    Are you sure? biggrin wink


    He, he...I have had many weird visits to public toilets, but that one has yet to be explored! smile

    OK, now we're REEEALLY off-topic here.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    2) Not at all like that Thor. You know that. 1) is 10 seconds in total. Not a lot stamina required for this i think wink


    I know others have already said it, and this argument is one which has gone on for many years and I'm sure will continue to do so, but it's obviously not as simple as that. The whole point of being a professional record producer is that you do that. How am I supposed to know when I put in an 80-minute album for the first time, how it's supposed to be arranged? If it has 30 minutes of great music and 50 minutes of dull music then the chances are, I'll rarely if ever listen to it again, and certainly won't be in a position to know definitively what the best album presentation is. But album producers are in exactly that position.

    I don't suppose many films would be very good if they consisted of every second of footage which had been shot, joined together, and yet that's how I'm meant to enjoy film scores? Why? How could that definitively be the best way of presenting every film score? In some cases it certainly is, but in most it isn't. Whatever happened to album producers who were actually able to produce albums properly? Is it simply a case that in the old days, when finances dictated that albums in general used to be no more than 40 minutes long, the producer would say "we can afford 40 minutes, so let's find the best 40 minutes we can" whereas now they say "we can afford 80 minutes, so let's stick all of it on there!"? I suspect it is as simple as that; hopefully something will come along and tell them all how wrong they are. There can be no definitive guide as to the best way of presenting a film score - sometimes it is indeed presenting the entire score in chronological order, but that's when there's something extra special being presented, and certainly not the general rule it's now treated as. Album producers need to treat each score on its own merits. Modern film music would seem so much better if the default option for composers and album producers was something other than padding out their 30 minutes of good music with 50 minutes of repetitive or dull stuff.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2008
    I'm with Thor and Martijn and Southall, though, certain extended and complete releases are worth it, but mostly only when I thought the regular release was good and wants me hearing more (Hellboy comes to mind)
    Kazoo
    • CommentAuthorPanthera
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    I think the majority of people prefer to have somewhat lengthier releases. I'd be happy if 50-70 minutes could become the industry standard.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008 edited
    Panthera wrote
    I think the majority of people prefer to have somewhat lengthier releases. I'd be happy if 50-70 minutes could become the industry standard.


    It already has, hasn't it?