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  1. Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    actually using Williams' themes and adhering to his style when there's original stuff.


    Giacchino did the EXACT SAME THING!

    -Erik-

    You expect any sort of fair analysis from Thor when it comes to Giacchino, Erik?
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    actually using Williams' themes and adhering to his style when there's original stuff.


    Giacchino did the EXACT SAME THING!

    -Erik-


    No, he didn't. Whenever there are themes (which aren't often; it's mostly just crash/bang ostinato or big chord leaps), he starts off like a Willliams theme, but suddenly veers off in completely weird directions -- like a bad parody. The "main theme" being the most egrerious example. Very few times an actual Willlams quote got to play out in full (a few cameos of the Force theme is about all I can remember, in addition to the Imperial march). This became even more evident to me when I rewatched the film on Netflix a couple of weeks ago. An extremely bad score for a pretty good film.

    The few seconds I heard of Powell, however, were far more promising. The quotes are allowed to play out in full, and the stuff "inbetween" seemed more Williamsy to me than anything in ROGUE ONE.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. I think what you describe as a weakness, is what I see as a major strength of Giacchino's score. He creates proto-versions of Williams' themes in order to not have musical anachronisms. If you watch ROGUE ONE and STAR WARS one after the other it is like the 1977 score grows naturally out of the 2016 one. That is a magnificent thing to achieve and a sign of deep respect. Giacchino refuses to use Williams' music as a quarrel. (to use a German phrase)
    What you demand would appear to be a Williams pastiche. I'm not interested in that.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    actually using Williams' themes and adhering to his style when there's original stuff.


    Giacchino did the EXACT SAME THING!

    -Erik-

    You expect any sort of fair analysis from Thor when it comes to Giacchino, Erik?


    Oh, absolutely not.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  3. Loved ‘Rogue One’ and hope this is as good, impossible to tell from a 45 second clip that’s mostly reused material but I’m optimistic!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    Captain Future wrote
    I think what you describe as a weakness, is what I see as a major strength of Giacchino's score. He creates proto-versions of Williams' themes in order to not have musical anachronisms. If you watch ROGUE ONE and STAR WARS one after the other it is like the 1977 score grows naturally out of the 2016 one. That is a magnificent thing to achieve and a sign of deep respect. Giacchino refuses to use Williams' music as a quarrel. (to use a German phrase)
    What you demand would appear to be a Williams pastiche. I'm not interested in that.

    Volker


    Well, I am. It's a thousand times better than the shitty parody approximations Giacchino conjures up for ROGUE ONE. We've had plenty of laughs about this "score" among fellow film critic colleagues.

    But I really don't think I'm able to have a constructive back and forth with you and Erik or any other defenders of that score, as my hatred of it runs so deep. We'd just end up pissing each other off.
    I am extremely serious.
  4. Any lack of constructiveness is not on our part, Thor, I can assure you. So either put up (your actual arguments rather than unsubstantiated insults) or shut up.

    Also I don't know who these "colleagues" are whom you constantly cite but they strike me as a deeply unlikable lot.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Any lack of constructiveness is not on our part, Thor, I can assure you. So either put up (your actual arguments rather than unsubstantiated insults) or shut up.


    I put up my arguments already (a few posts up). And yes, I would not be able to control myself in a prolonged discussion of this, as I so passionately and vehemently hate it (more than any other score I can think of), so better to disengage.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    See... the difference here is that I’m able to evaluate the score’s strengths and weakness without blind hatred/love of the composer. Admittedly, Giacchino has written some of my all time favourite music but he’s also written stuff that completely turns me off. You just hate him because he’s Giacchino. I don’t think you give him a fair shake at all.

    Sure, you dislike Rogue One, which is fine, but I don’t honestly think your evaluation of the score as a whole is fair. Like a few of the posters above have stated, Giacchino did EXACTLY with Rogue One what you are hoping Powell does with his score with his score to Solo. Sure, there are some utter cringe moments in Giacchino’s score... the Hope theme is really bad... but what I like about Giacchino’s score is that he didn’t just write a pastiche score, which I’m shocked is what you want from Powell in this series since, at least to me, you bring up pastiche as a slight against any composer who does it.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    Not discussing ROGUE ONE, as mentioned, but it will definitely be interesting to see what Powell does. There's good pastiche and bad pastiche. Hopefully, this is the former. And also curious to see if it will be his trademark action style (a la HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON); a rock-infused type of orchestral writing, or something more classical. Just a couple of more weeks untill we find out! Weird that not more has 'leaked out' already.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    Thor wrote
    ...as I so passionately and vehemently hate it (more than any other score I can think of).


    Wow. Seriously? The strongest emotion I could have towards a creative work is dislike. There have been works that made me cranky after I saw it, which would still be a strong dislike. Hate is the stuff lowlife on the internet feel, which I never take seriously. I think you strongly discredit yourself in talking about it like that, let alone “passionate and vehement” hate. To have such a desire to bring down a person, or what he creates, like that, or to allow yourself to direct such extreme negativity towards a work meant for entertainment is, if you ask me, just sad.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    Don't lecture me on my grounds for feeling the way I do, Bob. I can promise you there's a whole set of reasons as to why this score (and composer) triggers such unusually strong negative emotions in me.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    I think once someone has used the phrase “my hatred of it runs so deep”, then the thing in question is not really an object of discussion. You guys might disagree with Thor, but constantly bashing him over the head over something he feels so strongly about seems pointless. What does it matter to you that he despises a film score?
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    Because this is film music forum where talk about film music and sometimes we disagree and talk about those disagreements. If you don’t like conversation then don’t participate and don’t try to be a referee.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  5. BobdH wrote
    Thor wrote
    ...as I so passionately and vehemently hate it (more than any other score I can think of).


    Wow. Seriously? The strongest emotion I could have towards a creative work is dislike. There have been works that made me cranky after I saw it, which would still be a strong dislike. Hate is the stuff lowlife on the internet feel, which I never take seriously. I think you strongly discredit yourself in talking about it like that, let alone “passionate and vehement” hate. To have such a desire to bring down a person, or what he creates, like that, or to allow yourself to direct such extreme negativity towards a work meant for entertainment is, if you ask me, just sad.


    Hear! Hear!
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    I defend Thor's hatred of Giacchino's music. I hate lots of music. That's part of having tastes. So what if he hates it? Does that affect our experience of it? He's not saying we shouldn't listen to it. Jeez.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    Because this is film music forum where talk about film music and sometimes we disagree and talk about those disagreements. If you don’t like conversation then don’t participate and don’t try to be a referee.

    -Erik-


    it is a form of participation and conversation to write what I (and Steven) did, and offer the opinion that attempting to bludgeon someone out of a strongly held position is pointless.

    I, for one, appreciate that after giving his opinion, Thor does not attempt to force anyone else to change their's.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    Cry me a river. No one is bludgeoning anyone. rolleyes Thor can look after himself.

    What I was doing was defending my position and Giacchino's music, which I think Thor unfairly criticized based on a 45-second clip of Powell's new score and saying that Giacchino didn't do something when he CLEARLY did! NOWHERE did I say that Thor CAN'T hate ROGUE ONE or criticize it.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    Erik, I was just pointing out how several people on this site (I didn’t even name you specifically) seem to have made a past time out of mocking Thor’s opinions. If I speak up against that, “Cry me a river” seems a rather callous response. Of course Thor can take care of himself. That doesn’t mean, however, that I can’t say I find an entire page of posts bashing a single user to be in bad taste.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    NO ONE IS BASHING THOR!!!!

    Unless of course your name is The Hulk.
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    You expect any sort of fair analysis from Thor when it comes to Giacchino, Erik?


    Oh, absolutely not.

    -Erik-


    no bashing to be seen here folks, move along
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  6. Well, it's a little game we play here, isn't it? Thor sports one one exotic opinion or the other and the board has a great time flocking to the bait. I often picture Thor washing down potato chips with beer while enjoying the show he ignited.

    Besides, I agree with Erik that there are some rather bland passages in the Rogue One score, maybe due to the short time frame in post production.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    Aidabaida wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    You expect any sort of fair analysis from Thor when it comes to Giacchino, Erik?


    Oh, absolutely not.

    -Erik-


    no bashing to be seen here folks, move along


    That's not bashing. That's a fair assessment confirmed by Thor a few posts later.

    Thor wrote
    But I really don't think I'm able to have a constructive back and forth with you and Erik or any other defenders of that score, as my hatred of it runs so deep.


    Get out of here, Aidabaida. You're drunk!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    Erik Woods wrote


    Get out of here, Aidabaida. You're drunk!

    -Erik-


    Um, thanks for the conversation...
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2018
    Hahahahahaha! There was a conversation going on until you decide to play referee! Geez!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  7. Aidabaida wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    You expect any sort of fair analysis from Thor when it comes to Giacchino, Erik?


    Oh, absolutely not.

    -Erik-


    no bashing to be seen here folks, move along

    I stand by what I said. Thor has proven himself on multiple occasions in the past completely incapable of fairly judging Giacchino and his music. Desplat as well for that matter. He dismisses them out of hand for reasons that he generally fails to adequately rationalize (in this case, he mentions that Giacchino's themes often veer off in awkward ways, which I actually agree with when it comes to Rogue One, but that's not enough to dismiss the entire score, and certainly not enough to "hate" it). No matter how vehemently I disagree with it, I won't ever bash anyone's opinion if they have the ability to explain why they hold it, something which Thor frequently neglects to do.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2018
    Erik Woods wrote
    Hahahahahaha! There was a conversation going on until you decide to play referee! Geez!

    -Erik-


    conversations on most boards, film music or otherwise, tend to turn into meta conversations about the conversations fairly quickly. I think it's just a feature of discussion on the internet... If you find criticism of the topic at hand to be 'playing referee', I apologize, but a message board is, as you said, a place for posting and discussing opinions, and it is my opinion that the policing of Thor's taste that seems to be, as Captain Future noted, a perennial pasttime here, is in bad taste.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2018
    rolleyes
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2018 edited
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    No matter how vehemently I disagree with it, I won't ever bash anyone's opinion if they have the ability to explain why they hold it, something which Thor frequently neglects to do.


    I'm not really obliged to justify my love or hate of certain types of music to you or anyone else, but I did explain my reasons earlier in the thread, in case you missed it:

    Whenever there are themes (which aren't often; it's mostly just crash/bang ostinato or big chord leaps), he starts off like a Willliams theme, but suddenly veers off in completely weird directions -- like a bad parody. The "main theme" being the most egrerious example. Very few times an actual Willlams quote got to play out in full (a few cameos of the Force theme is about all I can remember, in addition to the Imperial march). This became even more evident to me when I rewatched the film on Netflix a couple of weeks ago. An extremely bad score for a pretty good film.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorCaliburn
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2018
    I liked Rogue One.. am I in the minority?