food food food.........

I understand your point, D.
I just don't agree. AT all!

I think you idea of "vital dependency" may be a quite anthropocentric.
With the possible exception of dogs, who HAVE been specifically bred since ages immemorial to rely on man (and even then I wouldn't try and make friends with a wild pack in Brazil or East Africa, where roaming packs of dogs can take excellent care of themselves), animals can cater for themselves without any problem (otherwise they'd be extinct). That these animals -individually- have been taught that if they (re)act a certain way to humans food will come their way, in no way negates their instinct: if that wouldn't work they'd try something else.

The only animals that are indeed "vitally dependent" on humans, are the ones brought up by humans (and nurtured and ...trained! A lot of behaviour IS simply Pavlovian, no matter how much we want our pets to think and talk like little anthropomorphic Disney figures).

And that includes snakes and salamanders.
Why not?

A pet cat may -or may not- recoil from a stranger approaching it, depending on )amongst other factors) whether it trusts humans or just its own pack (i.e. the owner/family).
A pet snake would have pretty much the same reaction, though their affection almost exclusively based on familiarity of smell, so anything in any way smelling out of the oridinary would be perceived as possibly threatening.

With huskies I think this is truest of all.
Didn't I read somewhere that they were -in some way that now escapes me- still closer to the wolf than any other breed of dog alive?

This is true, yeah. I can vouch for it too! His pack instincts are extremely evident at times. Also, huskies are harder to control than most dogs, they certainly have a mind of their own.

Though, in all fairness, I have very little to compare it to. I've only ever had the one dog; Nasa.

True. I certainly don't think vanity is the ONLY reason we kill one animal rather than the other. But it certainly affects the way we perceive the death of an animal. We inherently think physical beauty is something of worth.

But then is it not just as easy to breed horses and kill them for food? Or is there some other factor like cost? I'm assuming a herd of cows is cheaper in pretty much all respects than horses..? (Genuinely asking as I don't know!)

BIG fan of sushi, both the proper Japanese variety as I am of the 'Californian Roll' (avocado ).
It's one of the things I'm working on to make myself, bu it's NOT easy!
Cooking and cleaning the rice is half a day's work already...and I still can't roll for shit. (My rolls come out triangular or pentagonical... I need more practise, definitely!)

And sooooo damn healthy for you.

I love Sushi but I've never attempted making it myself..............yet!?

I may have given a misconception about myself here on this board because I really do love dogs too, it's just that I don't have the patience to own one personally, with Gomez I feed him and then he does whatever the feck he wants, not so a dog.

Just a quick meta-point:



Miya, I have had to deal with several Japanese people in different capacities: socially as well as in a business context. While using English in a business context wasn't usually all that bad (though still ennerving), in a social context we often had to finally revert in exasperation to pointing to things and making sounds and wild gestures to communicate (more or less).

From these experiences, my impression (and I do not mean any disrespect here) is that the Japanese simply aren't very interested in other cultures and languages and seldom take the effort to step outisde of Nippon-defined boundaries.

Your English is a complete and utter shock to that impression.
You understand and express the nuances and intricacies of English better than ANY Japanese I have met.

Here's to you , and please don't worry any more about your linguistic skills.
They're absolutely, positively and irrefutably fine.

Have you ever thought that all the animals we kill and eat NORMALLY are eating only grass and synthetic food which not meat-based? There's a reason men don't USUALLY eat other men or animals who eat meat.

I never thought i'd have to try so hard to defend the notion against anyone who kills and eats pets in a western, mostly European-based forum. And i never thought it would actually be SO HARD to understand the difference between killing animals to feed / clothe / whatever, and killing PETS. I am disappointed really, i have no will to discuss this even more, my points are clear-cut and are there, i have nothing to add.

Pigs will eat anything, as will goats.
Many edible fish are canibals.

But that's neither here nor there.
The thing you still don't seem to distill from Miya, Steven and myself is that what YOU call a pet, is just food to someone who doesn't give tuppence for you or your culture's pet. I won't eat your cat. I won't eat ANYONE's cat.
But it's not about ME.
It's about someone who DOESN'T call your pet a pet.

So I'm not sure what exactly it is you think you are having to defend?

I have no idea what you're getting so riled up about.
There's no culture in the world that eats their pets.

However there are some (very few) that do eat animals we in the west elect to keep as pets. But surely that we choose to do so is not their problem?

Yeah, I getcha.

But I'm just not clear what D. is getting so worked up about?
I honestly don't understand.
I'm the LAST person on this earth to propagate that postmodern misconcept of "cultural perspective", but this -to my mind- is hardly an issue of life and death or moral values. Just a simple given?

If you read Martijn's post clearly he says it all right there.

I'm gonna have some nice spirelli in a few minutes ... mmm , it's almost ready ...

I like horse meat, it's very tasty when prepared well (by my father that is). I also once ate kangaroo, which was rather disappointing. Dog was quite ok in China,tough very very though. And that's about the most exotic I've eaten.

Can I eat cat when we have our first far-east maintitles meeting D? You are invited.