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food food food.........
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- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009 edited
Christodoulides wrote
Martijn wrote
Christodoulides wrote
i believe that everyone should STOP at cats and dogs... Forget the word PETS, make that CATS AND DOGS. They are on a completely different level for me
Perfectly clear.
AT LAST!
...but I don't agree.
'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
I know, i don't have problems with it but i don't agree either.
As for the other, make that "I wouldn't blame you EVEN if you DID get offended, which is obviously NOT the case here" Better now? Damn i should be less lazy and start typing more words! 
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorBregje
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Martijn wrote
Bregje wrote
Wow, a lot has been written here. Too much to reply to.
One thing I missed in the whole argument is when cows, pigs and chicken are considered pets and then still are slaughtered for consumption.
No, no: that point has been made by me and James quite early on: we don't think there is any culture that actually eats its pets, or indeed any animal one has a strong emotional attachment with. I gave the example of a fourteen-year old girl's horse.
I don't actually think slaughtering those does happen (unless the most dire economic circumstances would demand it).
I think it does happen. Not a riding horse, whose destination is to be a riding horse.
But farm animals, like cows, chicken and rabbits, who are loved first and then eaten. -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
It may be.
It would be interesting to get the perspective of anyone having experienced that, but I think it may be limited to maybe farmer's children? It's not something I could really fathom being able to do myself.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
My grandmother does that with her rabbits and chicken. I don't see her greatly disturbed by it or connected with them. But i am sure it's different for children..i remember how it was always unbearable to watch her kill them when i was a kid, despite the fact that she did it as rapidly fast and as painless as possible for the animals.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
But were these animals you loved?
And did you eat them?
From what I read -for what it's worth- is that many South European people, especially the older generations, have a far more practical approach to animals than we in the West do. From the start it's clear that animals are there to either work or be consumed in some way. Whatever bond you form is fine, but that in no way changes their destiny.
Obviously it has a ground in a history of hard work and abject poverty, so that does make sense to me.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
No, i didn't have any affection towards them and i never liked rabbits or chicken...my grandmother raises them in her backyard. But still, the idea was very disturbing to me as a child.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorMiya
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009 edited
I did not get offended by the way you express your opinion, nor the fact you have a different opinion from me. As I said in a previous post, I enjoy reading and exchanging each other's different opinions.
But, when you brought up a Chinese abolished custom (and another custom I don't know), I felt surprised and a little offended. Because (at least I think) it has nothing to do with the ongoing "eating cats/dogs" discussion, and your way of mentioning it could lead to a misunderstanding that those customs are still allowed widely in Asian countries.
Christodoulides wrote
Mind you, i am against eating horses as well. As for being bred somewhere specifically for consumption, allow me to have strong doubts about this, given the overall circumstances that are valid in these countries. People who tie their daughter's feet in painfully tiny shoes to constrain their feet's size as they grow older, or get their little son married to a dog 'cause he had the misfortune of having a slightly displaced new tooth, are not having any restrains as to kill one's pet or a stray poor dog or cat, i can assure you.
As for the rest of the animals who are being bred for consumption, they have nothing to do with cats or dogs.
http://www.maintitles.net/forum/discuss … d/#Item_15
As I said yesterday, foot-binding is an abolished custom of China, even if it had prevailed until relatively recently. (I don't know whether it still exist underground or not. But it's totally off topic here!)
I haven't heard "marriage to a dog" habit. And, I am against those cruel customs, if they still exist in any countries today.
Again, this issue has nothing to do with "dogs/cats as food" issue, so I won't go any further into this topic. I just wanted to clarify the facts. I'm not making personal attacks on Demetris, of course.
I still want to comment on the historical backgrounds of dogs and cats (how humans domesticated them in ancient times). It's very interesting that your opinion is based on that, Demetris. How emotional the way you express your opinion was, I thought your statement is very logical because of that.
So I was thinking about the unique historical background of dogs and cats, while I was eating MOS Burger for lunch (yeah I had it today
), and started writing about it. But it's going beyond "food or pet" discussion! 
I'm interested in this issue very much, both as a dog lover and a biology student. Maybe I'll write some of my opinion on "Pets" thread or somewhere. 
Labels are for cans, not people. - Anthony Rapp -
- CommentAuthorBregje
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
That would be interesting.
All I know is that cats were worshipped animals by the Egyptians and they shaved their eyebrows when a cat died. Their own eyebrows, not the cats eyebrows obviously.
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- CommentAuthorBregje
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
I'm going to the library to look for a vegetarian cookery book. Not because of this whole discussion!
Just because I wanted to do that for a long while now. I'm so uninspired in the kitchen!!
Perhaps I'll look for a fish cookery book as well.
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- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Christodoulides wrote
Martijn wrote
Christodoulides wrote
they only do as such when i push too, as what happened with Martijn and on a lesser degree - Southall, here. And i don't blame them.
Um?
Wouldn't want to speak for James, but speaking purely for myself, I never got annoyed nor emotional.
I think I even said so specifically.
I never do.
Only with annoying trolls on the board... and even that may take a while!
I was just honestly interested in what the point was were our opinions and definitions diverged.
(For the record, I'm still not sure not entirely sure, but I gather it's at the "definition of pets" stage, where you will always see cats and dogs as pets and will not accept a culture not doing so. Is that right? At least then I get it. )
I wouldn't blame you if you did get offended
On your other question, yes, you can say so. I can accept many of the points you all raised, but i believe that everyone should STOP at cats and dogs, for the reasons i explained. Forget the word PETS, make that CATS AND DOGS. They are on a completely different level for me and i should have make it clearer right from the beginning.
Why specifically Cats & Dogs? Don't get me wrong D, you know I love these critters and would hate to see harm befall them but in some cultures they are not considered pets, indeed, they may even be considered vermin in the same way we see Rats and Pigeons.
So why Cats & Dogs over all the other "cuddly" animals?On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
My two favourite animals EVER actually happen to be a feline and a dog. The BEAUTIFUL and stunning (and sadly rare) snow leopard and of course the powerful wolf.
(No point to that. Just thought I'd share it.) -
- CommentAuthorMiya
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
I think, he divide dogs and cats from other animals because of their historical backgrounds (how humans domesticated them in ancient times)... Am I right, Demetris?Labels are for cans, not people. - Anthony Rapp -
- CommentAuthorBregje
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009 edited
Or... perhaps it has to do with a view that many people share, that some (or all) animals have a 'soul' ? From dogs especially it is known that people recognize emotions and character in the dog, what makes them closer to humans than other animals. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Miya wrote
I think, he divide dogs and cats from other animals because of their historical backgrounds (how humans domesticated them in ancient times)... Am I right, Demetris?
One word...Horses.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Bregje wrote
Or... perhaps it has to do with a view that many people share, that some (or all) animals have a 'soul' ? From dogs especially it is known that people recognize emotions and character in the dog, what makes them closer to humans than other animals.
I certainly like to believe that my own pets have "souls", so I don't see why other animals don't - whatever a soul may or may not be.
That's another interesting discussion in its own right! -
- CommentAuthorBregje
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
It is.
Perhaps in the pets topic or life view topic? -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Billy Joel evidently knew what he was on about when he said it's all about soul. I hadn't ever realised that he was actually talking about why eating certain types of animal is OK, but eating others is not. -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009 edited
Exactly, Miya and Bregje
Most prominently, it's the personal bond i have with cats especially; and dogs.
Morever:
Cats and Dogs are completely breed and tamed with humans, they feel the love and affection and pay it back, especially dogs which give proportionally much MORE than what they get.
Cats and Dogs are animals that can live and be 100% happy and satisfied within a house, as long as they're treated right. Almost every other animal will feel trapped in the house, away from its natural habitat.
Cats and Dogs have long historical roots as to being slowly through the years turned into the versions of the domestic cats and dogs we hold today, due to their ancestors' interaction with human beings. They exist 'cause of human beings.
They depend on human beings.
They feed on meat. All the other animals people use for food, are eating grass, fiber and stuff like that. There's a reason human beings don't usually consume other human beings or animals who too feed on meat.
Cats and Dogs have nothing to give, no meat (at least not generally accepted as such), no milk, no nothing other than affection.
But i am also against eating horses or snakes or anything like that, i just can't understand it either. Where i come from, people eat nothing but cow, pigs, chicken, fish and some wild animals like wild boars and deers and stuff in some areas.
However, due to the fact that i have no prominent emotional experience with those, it doesn't strike me as such.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorMiya
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Life view topic could be interesting!
In my view, human being is also a kind of animals, and all animals are evolved from common ancestor(s), so I like to think some of non-human animals have emotions as we do (or souls, if you want to call it so).
I'm interested in the evolution of emotions. I read about it in a book, but I forgot the details...
Labels are for cans, not people. - Anthony Rapp -
- CommentAuthorMiya
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009 edited
Christodoulides wrote
Exactly, Miya and Bregje
Most prominently, it's the personal bond i have with cats especially; and dogs.
Morever:
Cats and Dogs are completely breed and tamed with humans, they feel the love and affection and pay it back, especially dogs which give proportionally much MORE than what they get.
Cats and Dogs are animals that can live and be 100% happy and satisfied within a house, as long as they're treated right. Almost every other animal will feel trapped in the house, away from its natural habitat.
Cats and Dogs have long historical roots as to being slowly through the years turned into the versions of the domestic cats and dogs we hold today, due to their ancestors' interaction with human beings. They exist 'cause of human beings.
They depend on human beings.
They feed on meat. All the other animals people use for food, are eating grass, fiber and stuff like that. There's a reason human beings don't usually consume other human beings or animals who too feed on meat.
Cats and Dogs have nothing to give, no meat (at least not generally accepted as such), no milk, no nothing other than affection.
But i am also against eating horses or snakes or anything like that, i just can't understand it either. Where i come from, people eat nothing but cow, pigs, chicken, fish and some wild animals like wild boars and deers and stuff in some areas.
However, due to the fact that i have no prominent emotional experience with those, it doesn't strike me as such.
Well, it may be partly true, but not completely true. Their history of domestication is still not completely-clear, but there are some interesting scientific studies about it. But I have no time to write about it today... it's bedtime again.
By the way, have you read my post above? I'm not attacking you, of course, but worried that my post will be buried in a flood of new posts!Labels are for cans, not people. - Anthony Rapp -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Miya wrote
By the way, have you read my post above? I'm not attacking you, of course, but worried that my post will be buried in a flood of new posts!
I did! No worries, i am not offended by anything you've written, in any way.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Horses have had a relationship with man which is probably nearly as long as dogs? Certainly longer than cats.
Doesn't stop some countries from eating them.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
I know. I am against that too, i said it But i don't have a personal experience with horses and makes the emotional part a bit easier for me i suppose. But i strongly oppose to that.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Christodoulides wrote
I know. I am against that too, i said it But i don't have a personal experience with horses and makes the emotional part a bit easier for me i suppose. But i strongly oppose to that.
Such loyal and hard working animal ( I include Donkeys and Mules etc ) and yet they get treated appallingly in many countries. Still, that's a whole other argument.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Which countries eat horses btw? It's the first time i hear about such a habit
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009 edited
Christodoulides wrote
Which countries eat horses btw? It's the first time i hear about such a habit
Yer kiddin' me?
France definitely, there are others but I don't remember? ( I'm sure you could include CHINA on eating EVERYTHING!!! )On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
No, i didn't know that....i knew some people did, but not the specifics. Frenchies eh?
Well, China is IN everything nowadays isn't it?Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorMiya
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
http://www.maintitles.net/forum/discuss … d/#Item_19
I said raw horses (which are specially raised for food) are yummy!
And most of horse meat consumed in Japan are imported from Australia.
*heads to bed* Good night!
Labels are for cans, not people. - Anthony Rapp -
- CommentAuthorBregt
- CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
Have we already thought of our cow friends (who obviously like it here), are happy when we eat them?
Kazoo