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    •  
      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
    Get out now, or you will die tomorrow.

    http://www.californiajudgment2008.citym … 415990.htm
    Kazoo
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    So many many many reasons why that's retarded.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    shocked confused
    Man there´s people with lot of free time or not?
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Well perhaps the fires in California will reach a climax. smile
    Kazoo
    •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Bregt wrote
    Get out now, or you will die tomorrow.

    http://www.californiajudgment2008.citym … 415990.htm


    I'm a Christian, so I mean, I believe the Bible and all, but this... People need to stop drawing all these far-fetched prophesies from ancient codes and all. Most of them just seem like a person was bored and had a lot of time on his hands, thought up something, searched for numbers to match up with his idea, and then posted it on the Internet as the truth. The web is filled with these sorts of things.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    TheTelmarine wrote

    I'm a Christian, so I mean, I believe the Bible


    Even that I find crazy! Sorry, but I just do, especially with the blaring inconsistencies and the blatant fabrication of truths staring you in the face (and the all-too male dominated sexism of it reflecting what society was before equality was an integral part of society). Considering it was written in a time when there was a distinct lack of knowledge about science and the cosmos in general (and the lack of knowledge that they in fact lacked the knowledge), it's not surprising most humans saw supernatural meaning behind a lot of natural and even man-made events.

    I'm sure if the tsunami that happened in India in 2004 was recorded in the Bible 2000 odd years ago, it would have been hailed as the 'will of God'. Does anyone really believe that these days? Yeah, but not nearly as many that would have 2000 years ago though. Why? Because of science we know exactly why it happened. It had nothing to do with "God", and if it did, I'd say that's one petty god we have on our hands.

    Religion was the first and worst attempt at science and philosophy, as it tries to explain truths about the cosmos and the way we live. There are thousands of books out there about philosophy and science with more truth than the Bible could ever dream of teaching.

    I can more than understand Christianity as a way of life, and I'm glad it brings many of its followers happiness. But Christianity as a truth to life and where we came from is something I'll forever be against. I'm sure if there was a god, she would want us to think for ourselves, research things, question things. She was the one who gave us the intelligence in the first place, why not use it I say.

    Spirituality, the belief in a higher being, is not something I'm against (as long as it doesn't allow the believer to harm anything or anyone because of those beliefs). Blind 'faith' within religion is, and it continues to harm society both literally and figuratively.
    •  
      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    I'm reminded of timecube guy-> http://www.timecube.com/

    Why do nuts always write with a lack of caps control and countless colors and sizes?

    Peter smile
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Steven wrote
    TheTelmarine wrote

    I'm a Christian, so I mean, I believe the Bible


    Even that I find crazy! Sorry, but I just do, especially with the blaring inconsistencies and the blatant fabrication of truths staring you in the face (and the all-too male dominated sexism of it reflecting what society was before equality was an integral part of society). Considering it was written in a time when there was a distinct lack of knowledge about science and the cosmos in general (and the lack of knowledge that they in fact lacked the knowledge), it's not surprising most humans saw supernatural meaning behind a lot of natural and even man-made events.

    I'm sure if the tsunami that happened in India in 2004 was recorded in the Bible 2000 odd years ago, it would have been hailed as the 'will of God'. Does anyone really believe that these days? Yeah, but not nearly as many that would have 2000 years ago though. Why? Because of science we know exactly why it happened. It had nothing to do with "God", and if it did, I'd say that's one petty god we have on our hands.

    Religion was the first and worst attempt at science and philosophy, as it tries to explain truths about the cosmos and the way we live. There are thousands of books out there about philosophy and science with more truth than the Bible could ever dream of teaching.

    I can more than understand Christianity as a way of life, and I'm glad it brings many of its followers happiness. But Christianity as a truth to life and where we came from is something I'll forever be against. I'm sure if there was a god, she would want us to think for ourselves, research things, question things. She was the one who gave us the intelligence in the first place, why not use it I say.

    Spirituality, the belief in a higher being, is not something I'm against (as long as it doesn't allow the believer to harm anything or anyone because of those beliefs). Blind 'faith' within religion is, and it continues to harm society both literally and figuratively.


    Steven... Please don't turn the forums into just another religion debate. I've seen that happen to other forums I've been to, and it's not pretty. Honestly, there's a lot I can say right now in defense of my religion. There is a lot of supporting evidence on both sides, religion and evolution. I could battle this out with you all day long, but I really don't want to see MainTitles end up involved in a non-stop debate over religion. The fact is, so many people just already have their minds made up what they believe. If you honestly want to beat me up for my beliefs, feel free to continue this with email or AIM or something else. But I'll have no part of it here.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
    plindboe wrote
    I'm reminded of timecube guy-> http://www.timecube.com/

    Why do nuts always write with a lack of caps control and countless colors and sizes?

    Peter smile


    ThAtS A GooD PoiNT!?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
    TheTelmarine wrote
    Steven wrote
    TheTelmarine wrote

    I'm a Christian, so I mean, I believe the Bible


    Even that I find crazy! Sorry, but I just do, especially with the blaring inconsistencies and the blatant fabrication of truths staring you in the face (and the all-too male dominated sexism of it reflecting what society was before equality was an integral part of society). Considering it was written in a time when there was a distinct lack of knowledge about science and the cosmos in general (and the lack of knowledge that they in fact lacked the knowledge), it's not surprising most humans saw supernatural meaning behind a lot of natural and even man-made events.

    I'm sure if the tsunami that happened in India in 2004 was recorded in the Bible 2000 odd years ago, it would have been hailed as the 'will of God'. Does anyone really believe that these days? Yeah, but not nearly as many that would have 2000 years ago though. Why? Because of science we know exactly why it happened. It had nothing to do with "God", and if it did, I'd say that's one petty god we have on our hands.

    Religion was the first and worst attempt at science and philosophy, as it tries to explain truths about the cosmos and the way we live. There are thousands of books out there about philosophy and science with more truth than the Bible could ever dream of teaching.

    I can more than understand Christianity as a way of life, and I'm glad it brings many of its followers happiness. But Christianity as a truth to life and where we came from is something I'll forever be against. I'm sure if there was a god, she would want us to think for ourselves, research things, question things. She was the one who gave us the intelligence in the first place, why not use it I say.

    Spirituality, the belief in a higher being, is not something I'm against (as long as it doesn't allow the believer to harm anything or anyone because of those beliefs). Blind 'faith' within religion is, and it continues to harm society both literally and figuratively.


    Steven... Please don't turn the forums into just another religion debate. I've seen that happen to other forums I've been to, and it's not pretty. Honestly, there's a lot I can say right now in defense of my religion. There is a lot of supporting evidence on both sides, religion and evolution. I could battle this out with you all day long, but I really don't want to see MainTitles end up involved in a non-stop debate over religion. The fact is, so many people just already have their minds made up what they believe. If you honestly want to beat me up for my beliefs, feel free to continue this with email or AIM or something else. But I'll have no part of it here.


    This is not one of those forums, trust me. smile And I'm not one of those people who will "attack" you for your beliefs. I will simply 'attack' the beliefs themselves, or to use a more appropriate word, question them. Don't take it personally, I never mean for it to be a personal attack. I may not respect religious beliefs, but I respect many religious people. Please don't accuse me of 'beating you up' for your beliefs.

    I would like to hear this supporting evidence of religion? Genuinely. I've yet to hear anything that can be described as "evidence", particularly in light of the more far-fetched things taught in the Bible. And if you are willing to place so much faith on so many things from the Bible, why should you not be able to defend it? Why should we not have a debate about it? I like debates. Allows people to refine each of their points on both sides of the argument. And no, I don't think we will need to take this to emailing or AIM, these kinds of discussions are fine within the forum.

    Why is debating religion considered so taboo when debating theories based on actual evidence and logic is the first things scientists do? Religion shouldn't be so unnecessarily protected from scrutiny. It's a theory like any other, just those who believe it don't want to believe anything else - at least that's what I tend to come across with the many religious people I have talked to.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
    Steven wrote
    And no, I don't think we will need to take this to emailing or AIM, these kinds of discussions are fine within the forum.


    As you wish. I've actually found quite a bit of good supporting facts on the Web. Hold on, and I'll go try to find some.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    TheTelmarine wrote
    Steven wrote
    And no, I don't think we will need to take this to emailing or AIM, these kinds of discussions are fine within the forum.


    As you wish. I've actually found quite a bit of good supporting facts on the web. Hold on, and I'll go try to find some.


    Then wouldn't you find that a little hypocritical to faith itself? On the one hand, Christianity teaches faith without question, and is usually opposed to scientific discoveries disputing many of the 'facts' of the Bible. But when science, logic or any factual data can SUPPORT religious ideas, it's funny how the tables turn so suddenly.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
    Steven wrote
    TheTelmarine wrote
    Steven wrote
    And no, I don't think we will need to take this to emailing or AIM, these kinds of discussions are fine within the forum.


    As you wish. I've actually found quite a bit of good supporting facts on the web. Hold on, and I'll go try to find some.


    Then wouldn't you find that a little hypocritical to faith itself? On the one hand, Christianity teaches faith without question, and is usually opposed to scientific discoveries disputing many of the 'facts' of the Bible. But when science, logic or any factual data can SUPPORT religious ideas, it's funny how the tables turn so suddenly.


    Steven, should we discuss this here, or start a new thread? Also, have you ever read any books such as The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel? Check that one out. Lee Strobel, a former atheist, who was trying to find all the evidence he could to prove that Christianity is a farce, actually came up with so much supporting evidence for it that he became a Christian.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Here is fine. I am very interested to read these pieces of evidence. But again, I repeat what I said: It's hypocritical to arm one's self with supporting evidence and facts when evidence and facts that dispute religion's legitimacy are usually ignored by the 'faithful'. I'm not accusing you of this, you may be more inclined to listen to the other side of the debate than others, but certainly this is a case I see time and time again from the religious side of the debate.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Steven wrote
    Here is fine. I am very interested to read these pieces of evidence. But again, I repeat what I said: It's hypocritical to arm one's self with supporting evidence and facts when evidence and facts that dispute religion's legitimacy are usually ignored by the 'faithful'. I'm not accusing you of this, you may be more inclined to listen to the other side of the debate than others, but certainly this is a case I see time and time again from the religious side of the debate.


    Actually, there are a lot of Christians that, while we don't need proof to believe, still have found a lot of evidence. Just because a person has faith in something doesn't mean they don't like to see and share evidence they've found.
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
    TheTelmarine wrote
    There is a lot of supporting evidence on both sides, religion and evolution.


    It seems you equate evolution with atheism or areligiosity. Facts are that most evolutionists are christians, and most christians are evolutionists. I realize alot of creationist propaganda tends to preach otherwise. I advice some skepticism, even when you read stuff that you like to believe is true.

    Funnily enough, in the Middle East, islamic creationism uses very similar arguments as christian creationism does in the US, one big difference being that they believe evolution is a christian conspiracy that is out to destroy Islam.

    Curious how fundamentalism and paranoia tends to go hand in hand.

    Peter smile
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Steven wrote
    I would like to hear this supporting evidence of religion? Genuinely. I've yet to hear anything that can be described as "evidence", particularly in light of the more far-fetched things taught in the Bible. And if you are willing to place so much faith on so many things from the Bible, why should you not be able to defend it? Why should we not have a debate about it? I like debates. Allows people to refine each of their points on both sides of the argument. And no, I don't think we will need to take this to emailing or AIM, these kinds of discussions are fine within the forum.

    Why is debating religion considered so taboo when debating theories based on actual evidence and logic is the first things scientists do? Religion shouldn't be so unnecessarily protected from scrutiny. It's a theory like any other, just those who believe it don't want to believe anything else - at least that's what I tend to come across with the many religious people I have talked to.


    Here are some links to videos, articles, and a book you may like to check out:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiNS_e5yJJU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEXGKzH0 … re=related
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … rQKLoP2hCw
    http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
    http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journ … 0310209307
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    plindboe wrote
    TheTelmarine wrote
    There is a lot of supporting evidence on both sides, religion and evolution.


    It seems you equate evolution with atheism or areligiosity. Facts are that most evolutionists are christians, and most christians are evolutionists. I realize alot of creationist propaganda tends to preach otherwise. I advice some skepticism, even when you read stuff that you like to believe is true.

    Funnily enough, in the Middle East, islamic creationism uses very similar arguments as christian creationism does in the US, one big difference being that they believe evolution is a christian conspiracy that is out to destroy Islam.

    Curious how fundamentalism and paranoia tends to go hand in hand.

    Peter smile


    It's true that some Christians do believe in evolution. Personally, I don't. I believe it just as the Bible says it. I don't see why some Christian evolutionists try to take the seven days of creation to mean millions or billions of years.
  1. I've taken a look at the article about 6 reasons behind God's true existence and, me being religious, I don't find it much convincing, because it doesn't *state* facts, but interpret them.

    Anyway, what may be of interest that one of the famous world cosmology professors (cosmology as in part of physics, not the mythology of the world creation), Michal Heller, is a Catholic priest. He even received a theological prize for it. I don't think his aim is to find proof for God's existence though.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    TheTelmarine wrote
    Steven wrote
    Here is fine. I am very interested to read these pieces of evidence. But again, I repeat what I said: It's hypocritical to arm one's self with supporting evidence and facts when evidence and facts that dispute religion's legitimacy are usually ignored by the 'faithful'. I'm not accusing you of this, you may be more inclined to listen to the other side of the debate than others, but certainly this is a case I see time and time again from the religious side of the debate.


    Actually, there are a lot of Christians that, while we don't need proof to believe, still have found a lot of evidence. Just because a person has faith in something doesn't mean they don't like to see and share evidence they've found.


    If they are willing to share this evidence, again I shall say that this is highly antithetical to the notion that proof is not needed for their belief. It goes against the idea of faith.

    I think it's funny how beliefs of a religious nature tend to start off blindly (without evidence, i.e. just what can be read in the Bible) and then if it suits them, they can find evidence to support their beliefs. Though I still find it hard to accept that there is any evidence that unequivocally supports the idea that Jesus was in fact the son of God and was in fact resurrected. I'm very interested in hearing the evidence for this.

    Those who find evidence disputing religion did not start off with a belief, a blind 'faith', that is a key difference here. "Atheists" (a term I dislike, but is a necessary evil) do not hold any unfounded beliefs for the Ultimate Truth of the world we live in. They simply assume theories that are un-disprovable, like that of evolution. And yet, atheists and scientists still do not teach evolution as an Ultimate Truth, they still call it the Theory of Evolution.
  2. Steven, I guess that supernatural elements are a necessary evil in EVERY single religion. The Virginity of Mary was decided to be dogmatic somewhere in 18th/19th century anyway.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Steven wrote
    TheTelmarine wrote
    Steven wrote
    Here is fine. I am very interested to read these pieces of evidence. But again, I repeat what I said: It's hypocritical to arm one's self with supporting evidence and facts when evidence and facts that dispute religion's legitimacy are usually ignored by the 'faithful'. I'm not accusing you of this, you may be more inclined to listen to the other side of the debate than others, but certainly this is a case I see time and time again from the religious side of the debate.


    Actually, there are a lot of Christians that, while we don't need proof to believe, still have found a lot of evidence. Just because a person has faith in something doesn't mean they don't like to see and share evidence they've found.


    If they are willing to share this evidence, again I shall say that this is highly antithetical to the notion that proof is not needed for their belief. It goes against the idea of faith.


    I'm not saying I need faith to believe. But after believing, when you start to look into things, you begin to see things differently and see the supporting evidence. You don't need it to believe, but it is there. To believe evolution or the big bang theory also requires a step of faith; does it not?

    Steven wrote
    Though I still find it hard to accept that there is any evidence that unequivocally supports the idea that Jesus was in fact the son of God and was in fact resurrected. I'm very interested in hearing the evidence for this.


    Seriously, get yourself a copy of The Case for Christ and read it. It's actually logical to believe Jesus is the Son of God. Also, do you even believe Jesus was a real person?
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    I think we should give it a rest for now, we're just going round in circles. wink Perhaps we should wait for other people to chime in... but I doubt anyone will unfortunately.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Steven wrote
    I think we should give it a rest for now, we're just going round in circles. wink Perhaps we should wait for other people to chime in... but I doubt anyone will unfortunately.


    Yeah, I guess you're right. wink
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
    I went to a Catholic primary and secondary school and was once put in detention by my R.E. teacher and cautioned by senior staff for raising a logical case against Christianity, putting forward very sensible and reasonable questions in a very calm and friendly manner, during an R.E. lesson in year 10. Unfortunately I flipped when the teacher (a complete dickhead if there ever was one) suddenly began disregarding my arguments as silly and preposterous and the debate escalated until I was dismissed from the lesson. He clearly had time for discussion on the subject, just not with me. The memory of that day serves as excellent motivation for debates like these. I always hated that teacher, he was an ignorant f*cker.
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    TheTelmarine wrote
    It's true that some Christians do believe in evolution. Personally, I don't. I believe it just as the Bible says it. I don't see why some Christian evolutionists try to take the seven days of creation to mean millions or billions of years.


    It's because they accept God's creation (i.e. the world) for what it is, instead of dismissing anything that doesn't conform to their preconceptions. It's how faith is when it's not blind.

    If you want to understand christian evolutionist thinking, a book that might be worth your while is Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God". I haven't read it myself, but I've heard very good things about it from christians.

    Peter smile
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
    plindboe wrote
    TheTelmarine wrote
    It's true that some Christians do believe in evolution. Personally, I don't. I believe it just as the Bible says it. I don't see why some Christian evolutionists try to take the seven days of creation to mean millions or billions of years.


    It's because they accept God's creation (i.e. the world) for what it is, instead of dismissing anything that doesn't conform to their preconceptions. It's how faith is when it's not blind.

    If you want to understand christian evolutionist thinking, a book that might be worth your while is Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God". I haven't read it myself, but I've heard very good things about it from christians.

    Peter smile


    The reason most people don't believe in evolution is simply because they haven't read about it in-depth, or haven't understood it. The evidence is just too vast to dispute it using any religious ideas. It genuinely depresses me. sad
  3. plindboe wrote
    TheTelmarine wrote
    It's true that some Christians do believe in evolution. Personally, I don't. I believe it just as the Bible says it. I don't see why some Christian evolutionists try to take the seven days of creation to mean millions or billions of years.


    It's because they accept God's creation (i.e. the world) for what it is, instead of dismissing anything that doesn't conform to their preconceptions. It's how faith is when it's not blind.

    If you want to understand christian evolutionist thinking, a book that might be worth your while is Kenneth Miller's "Finding Darwin's God". I haven't read it myself, but I've heard very good things about it from christians.

    Peter smile


    Actually, if we're at it, you are seeing the Bible literally, though when it comes to Genesis it is a very popular method to see it as an allegory then indeeed the day is million years. We can't take the Bible *too* literally.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Marselus wrote
    shocked confused
    Man there´s people with lot of free time or not?


    Mate, have you ever been on a Lost forum? tongue
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
    Steven wrote
    The reason most people don't believe in evolution is simply because they haven't read about it in-depth, or haven't understood it. The evidence is just too vast to dispute it using any religious ideas. It genuinely depresses me. sad


    I think, in the US it's about 50/50 now, and it seems to be heading in the right direction.

    Peter smile