As Above, So Below - the religion thread (formerly: People of California, beware)

Which was even seen in the Patristic days (3-5th Century, somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) and St. Augustine's De doctrine Christiana (On the Christian doctrine).

VenomFangX and Kent Hovind? Oy vey! That's probably the two most ridiculous characters on the internet. They tend to sound very sure of themselves, but they are saying complete bollocks; lies, misrepresentations and misunderstandings of science. Hovind is currently in jail for tax evasion btw, which shows a bit about this man's honesty. If you have a favorite argument, bring it forth and we can discuss it in depth, it would take too long to address everything in the above links.

If you want to hear some actual scientific evidence from an actual evolutionary biologist, instead of a delusional teenager and a criminal with a fake degree, I again suggest Ken Miller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

Another link I recommend, for anyone who want to know what evolution actually is, instead of the strawman version creationists tend to attack, I warmly recommend the following site: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

Peter

Christians are the same way; you think we aren't depressed seeing so many people in this world missing out on God's gift of salvation?

Yeah, Christian groups will simply pick and choose which bits of scripture to believe and which bits to write off as symbols or allegories. A frighteningly large number of people still take their scripture, including the story of Noah, literally. Their whole life of education has led them to view natural disasters as bound up in human affairs, paybacks for human misdemeanours, rather than anything as impersonal, such as plate tectonics.

To be honest, I feel sorry for him. Oh, and he is a Christian. A school like that would not employ non-Christian teachers for the R.E. department! No way.

I am. Although not a fanatic, but yes, i am Christian Orthodox.

Again you confuse creationism with christianity. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean they aren't christian. Let God do the judging.

The evolutionary biologist I linked to in this thread is a christian. If you seek people in this thread, PawelStroinski is christian as well.

Peter

Yes, created by your own feelings - "God" is only real to you because you wish it so and you will find him wherever you look. Religion is largely followed simply because those who do need to believe in something to give meaning to their life and the world around them. The fact that it makes you feel good is in no way an argument for its legitimacy, it just isn't.

I feel sorry for you for thinking there is an all-powerful almighty "God" who judges and tells you how to live your life, one that will send you to hell for not living by his/her rule. I feel sorry for those who adhere to the sexual repression that the Bible teaches. I feel sorry for you for needing religion in your life to live a good one.

Says who? You. How do you know? You don't, you think you know.

But what you DO know pretty damn well than nobody is in a position to be aware of the actual truth for sure and up to that degree so that he'd write off others beliefs with full confidence and security of knowledge and in addition, add sympathies for their state of poor beliefs ontop.

And My God, Steven: you have a very misunderstood view of religion and Christianity in general :

That's not true. God is real to me because He is real. He's as real as you are, as my family is, as my girlfriend is. You can't just say He's an imaginary being. You don't have any proof of that. Look around, and you'll see that there is nothing that can disprove what the Bible says.



Don't feel sorry for me; I'm fine! It's you I feel sorry for. What's the matter with having someone who judges and runs our lives? He created us in His image, gave us life, a home, and His son to die for our sins, so why shouldn't we follow and serve Him? By sexual repression, do you mean abstinence? There's nothing wrong with that. After all, it's the best way to avoid unwanted pregnancy and STDs. I have a girlfriend, and we're both waiting for marriage.

And i am perfectly alright with my sweety, family, life and friends. I Don't see any dude with white beard and a stick running behind me hitting me on the head and telling me to be miserable.

Excellent point. William, you can't expect people to accept that as an intelligible reply to this debate since you've blindly assumed God is real. I'm sorry, but if you are going to debate like that then I can't really take this debate very seriously.

Of course God cannot be disproved, but that does not mean the probability of his/her existence lies exactly half way between true or false. The probability of God's existence is extremely low in light of scientific evidence... but does that disprove the existence? No. And do I believe without a shadow of a doubt that God doesn't exist? No, I just assume he/she doesn't. You on the other hand KNOW of God's existence, you think you hold some God-given knowledge that people like myself do not have the privilege of - and I find that extremely offensive to human intelligence.



Ah, but I have only misunderstood it if I were referring to your take on Christianity specifically. I was not, I was referring to the teachings of the Bible and the oppressive interpretations that can and have been/being derived from it. I was paralleling it to the fruits of life that can be had without resorting to dogmas of religion if you like.

Religions aren't theories, imo, but a mixture of postulations, stories, rituals etc. that people live by. They are generally presented as the ultimate Truth.

Scientific theories are explanatory frameworks, consisting of mechanisms, subtheories, models, testable hypotheses etc., that seek to explain observations within specific boundaries. They are not regarded as Truth; conflicting evidence will either provoke changes to increase the level of accuracy or if really severe, get the theory discarded completely. Find a precambrian rabbit skull for example, and you've completely disproved evolution.



The theory of evolution has indeed come a long way since it's humble beginnings. Darwin certainly wasn't right about everything.

Peter

Can you show me a bit of evidence that proves Christianity is a farce and God is not real?

You can't correct a holy book, because the principle says (I think it goes as far as to St. Augustine again) that the human authors wrote down the words sent by God. If you believed that He is an absolute truth, etc. you rather wouldn't edit his works without his approval.

The mistakes in translation from the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek source is another thing, the corrections in that matter go as far as to Renaissance.