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    •  
      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008
    Timmer wrote
    A "perfect average film"?

    A perfect average film?


    Haven't got my head around that one! dizzy

    tongue
    I´ve said it in the worst meaning of course. An Indy film can be anything but average. And Indy 4 IS average.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008
    Marselus wrote
    Timmer wrote
    A "perfect average film"?

    A perfect average film?


    Haven't got my head around that one! dizzy

    tongue
    I´ve said it in the worst meaning of course. An Indy film can be anything but average. And Indy 4 IS average.


    Oh I get that, it's the "perfect" I don't wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008 edited
    Spoilers below...

    Let's try and clear one thing up here. Was that alien real? I seriously couldn't tell whether it was meant to be physically there (after all the skeletons came together), or whether it was just what Spalko was seeing as all the minds were feeding her information.


    Bump. How did this come accross to other people?
    •  
      CommentAuthorAtham
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008
    Well, here's my take on it all:

    I've been a die hard Indy fan since I first saw Raiders in July 1981 (it opened on my birthday).
    It was THE film for me! I saw it another 15 times over the following months.
    When Temple Of Doom came out (also on my Bithday) in 84 I was shocked by much of it but overall enjoyed it. I was so into Indy in my teens that I bought a bullwhip and learnt to master it quite well. When The Last Crusade came out in 89 I went to the opening with many friends. We all enjoyed it. It wasn't Raiders but it had something and it was very fun! I embraced the trilogy.

    For years I've been reading rumours of Indy's comeback. Finally a script was agreed on!
    After all this time of waiting it had to be good right? And Marion is back in it! Can't go wrong!

    I've just come back from the cinema. I waited a few days to let crowds die down and also for some friends to be freed up to go with me at this time.
    I've read the reviews good and not so good. I've thrashed the score over the past week.
    I went with lowered expectations just in case it didn't deliver.

    I read posts here from other fans who were disapointed and I thought "no guys, come on. Just have fun and enjoy the ride!" I thought I'd love it no matter how corny it may be in places.
    Sadly after seeing this I can only agree with you!
    There is something missing this time around. Yes, the suspense, goosebump religious moments etc.
    Great seeing Karen Allen back but even she couldn't save it!
    Way too many corny moments too. I'm cringing just thinking about them! And way too sweet!
    Too many scenes that made me ask why is this happening? Is it nesessary?
    I found the scoring was a little too flat in places too. And I agree with those who said some of the cues were mixed a little too low in places.

    You've read all this before so I won't go on.

    Maybe after repeted viewings I'll grow to accept it. Dunno! Maybe I'm just getting old!
  1. Anthony wrote
    I've been listening to the score a lot since seeing the movie, and something is definately wrong with it...There is nothing in this which does anything for me. Even the Raiders March does bugger all...

    When I first listened to the score (yet to have a second listen) I though that the Raiders March didn't seem to be as rousing as heard in previous scores. I'd assumed that Williams had toned down the feel of this theme because of Indy's advancing years.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008 edited
    I don't get why it doesn't sound as rousing though. Apart from a newer recording, it "sounds" exactly as it always did, but it just doesn't do anything this time around. confused

    What I can't even start to figure out though, is why the action music isn't exciting. It's just kind of ''there''. A Whirl Through Academe musically is fine, but again, it just doesn't do anything.

    What's with this score? It's totally emotionless. dizzy
  2. Some opinions...

    Shia --> nailed it - he IS Indy´s son!
    His Swordfight --> over the top, but loving it
    His Tarzan thing --> WAY over the top, but... well hate would be too strong... I didn´t like it

    The Alien Thing --> I loved the whole thing. Everything about it. Everything.

    Atomic Test Area --> This felt totally out of place, BUT I liked it. That freezer thing was pure Indy stuff. As was the waterfall. Look at Temple of Doom (and the Mine Chase) again and tell me what was sillier.

    Marion --> Yeah, she looked good. Yeah, she grinned a bit too much. Yeah, I loved seeing her again.

    Ox --> Yeah, this was bad. Poor John.

    Ray Winston --> Poor guy. His best role remains to be Will Scarlett...

    Music --> The alien theme was fitting, as was Irina´s, BUT I agree, too few emotion.

    @Anthony: Interesting idea about this being just an illusion for irina. She earned it. Badly. Anyway, I LOVE both possibilities. But I already said that. The Alien thing was so Fifties. Great.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008
    She kept saying "I...can...see" or something didn't she? I guess that could imply she could see what the alien race used to be? That's what I'm thinking, as I can't see an logic in the skeletons coming together to form an alien...

    But then why did the ship fly off, if everything was dead?
  3. Atham wrote
    Well, here's my take on it all:

    I've been a die hard Indy fan since I first saw Raiders in July 1981 (it opened on my birthday).
    It was THE film for me! I saw it another 15 times over the following months.
    When Temple Of Doom came out (also on my Bithday) in 84 I was shocked by much of it but overall enjoyed it. I was so into Indy in my teens that I bought a bullwhip and learnt to master it quite well. When The Last Crusade came out in 89 I went to the opening with many friends. We all enjoyed it. It wasn't Raiders but it had something and it was very fun! I embraced the trilogy.

    For years I've been reading rumours of Indy's comeback. Finally a script was agreed on!
    After all this time of waiting it had to be good right? And Marion is back in it! Can't go wrong!

    I've just come back from the cinema. I waited a few days to let crowds die down and also for some friends to be freed up to go with me at this time.
    I've read the reviews good and not so good. I've thrashed the score over the past week.
    I went with lowered expectations just in case it didn't deliver.

    I read posts here from other fans who were disapointed and I thought "no guys, come on. Just have fun and enjoy the ride!" I thought I'd love it no matter how corny it may be in places.
    Sadly after seeing this I can only agree with you!
    There is something missing this time around. Yes, the suspense, goosebump religious moments etc.
    Great seeing Karen Allen back but even she couldn't save it!
    Way too many corny moments too. I'm cringing just thinking about them! And way too sweet!
    Too many scenes that made me ask why is this happening? Is it nesessary?
    I found the scoring was a little too flat in places too. And I agree with those who said some of the cues were mixed a little too low in places.

    You've read all this before so I won't go on.

    Maybe after repeted viewings I'll grow to accept it. Dunno! Maybe I'm just getting old!


    I totally agree with you, the special ingredient is missing from this one. I was not into Indiana as much as you but I agree it's a very special trilogy, right up there with the Back to the Future and the original Star Wars trilogy. It has everything good adventure movies should have, sadly this Crystal Skull thing has everything an adventure movie shouldn't have... Ah, we're both old geezers then. But what about Spielberg then, he said he'll always remain 30! Shouldn't he have made something more in the style of Raiders or Crusade then? I'd like to know that one day.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008
    In all honesty, I think what threw a lot of people off was the amount of CGI. I wonder if they'd done everything old-school with all the dodgy effects the previous movies had it would have looked "better" (but obviously more fake).

    CGI - when done right - doesn't distract, but even when it fall short by a tiny mark it's noticible. At least with the old effects you'd think "well that looks damn fake, but who cares". With CGI it's the case of "that doesn't look 100% realistic, therefore it sucks!".
    •  
      CommentAuthorDreamTheater
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008 edited
    While it didn't bother me to be honest, the use of CGI in an old school adventure movie can be very noticeable. Just look at Transformers, brilliant use of CGI because the world the movie is set in is already very high tech. And Indiana needed some real live action stuff, so we could connect more to the characters. But that's not my biggest complaint with the movie, it's the story!
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2008
    The old ones didn't have CGI though. It was models, the odd blue screen and other effects - not stuff that was totally created on computers. I find it quite ironic that Spielberg said "we want to keep the feel of an old movie and stay away from the CGI", and then to have the whole ending sequence that couldn't have been achieved any other way. rolleyes
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      CommentAuthorAtham
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008 edited
    The CGI didn't bother me at all. Great effects throughout (with the exception of one shot midway through where the camera in flying over that tomb area and it was clearly an old fashed model that looked small and made me wish they'd used CGI instead)!
    I think many elements brought this film down ie too many cutsie animal scenes like those "comical" ground hogs or those amazingly inteligent and helpful monkeys who help Mutt learn to swing through the jungle faster than the jeeps and trucks way ahead of them! Not to mention that poor python used to pull Indy out of the quicksand! By the time all these crazy scenes passed I found the giant ants totally acceptable! Which is a bit sad.
    People praise Speilberg for still having that "magic" touch. Hmmmm, maybe.
    It's like in The Lost World I remember how he'd sabotage the films' credibility with cheesy scenes like where the young girl knocks out a raptor using her gymnastics moves.
    Well KOTCS is full of that dumbed down stuff.
    Much of the original dream team that brought us those wonderful Indy films in the eighties were back for this one. I though "it could'nt go wrong, they know what they're doing". I was wrong.
    There were some cool moments no doubt. But it was the sluggish padding in between that got me.
    I was watching the making of KOTCS on tv last night. Speilberg, Ford and team were raving about the magic they are producing once again yet only hours earlier I found the opposite to be true!
    The funny thing is, I have to see this film again tomorrow because I'm locked in with another group of friends. I wont let them know I've seen it yet. It may be better the second time around.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008 edited
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Some opinions...

    Shia --> nailed it - he IS Indy´s son!


    He is too short.

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    His Swordfight --> over the top, but loving it


    Hella gay! Totally hella gay! Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. This was in no way keeping with the Indy feel. It was a pointless, silly sword fight that might have worked if there was some suspense and realism in the sequence. Shia balancing between the two cars getting hit in the nads over and over again... cheap. Totally cheap.

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    His Tarzan thing --> WAY over the top, but... well hate would be too strong... I didn´t like it


    Cringe. Maybe without the monkeys it might have worked. But the CGI monkey's sucked LARGE!!!

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    The Alien Thing --> I loved the whole thing. Everything about it. Everything.


    Love the idea... the execution sucked! However, The Departure was brilliant!

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Atomic Test Area --> This felt totally out of place, BUT I liked it. That freezer thing was pure Indy stuff. As was the waterfall. Look at Temple of Doom (and the Mine Chase) again and tell me what was sillier.


    Agreed that the Atomic Bomb was out of the place you can't compare the waterfall to the Mine Car Chase. Except for the jump over the unfinished track the rest is easily believable and way more exciting. The key word is excitement. It was an essential action sequence in the film. The waterfall in Skull had no point!


    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Marion --> Yeah, she looked good. Yeah, she grinned a bit too much. Yeah, I loved seeing her again.


    The grinning was just fine especially after Indy's "None of them were you" line Perfectly delivered and a perfect reaction by Marion. However, after that, Marion was useless and unnecessary.

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Ox --> Yeah, this was bad. Poor John.


    A big waste of time.


    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Ray Winston --> Poor guy. His best role remains to be Will Scarlett...


    Another big waste of time.

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Music --> The alien theme was fitting, as was Irina´s, BUT I agree, too few emotion.


    The tracked music was awful! "Temple Ruins And The Secret Revealed" and "Departure" were the best parts of the score. And Irina's theme when first heard with the sax at the beginning of the film was Williams brilliance. The rest, ordinary. Great music but still not great Indy music. However, the unreleased Warehouse action music was about as close to awesome Indy music as you could get. Williams followed the action perfectly and I would have loved to hear how the action music actually began instead of hearing the tracked Indy theme from Raiders. vomit

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorTalos
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008 edited
    To keep it simple, I really liked the movie... (minus Tarzan)

    To answer a question... someone asked why there was a road available in the jungle after that "jungle-road-maker-machine" was destroyed. Well, it was not a road but the edge of a cliff... mostly these edges are exposed to erosion and such. Therefore there was no vegetation, hence this "barren strip" where they could have their chase. (I wonder why I try to analyze this... hahaha, its a mindless adventure movie, anyway love to do this... lol)

    My personal big question is: (and correct me if I overlooked something)

    Why did they have that atomic blast... right next to Silo 51???... I mean, all those artifacts vaporized (the Ark for example)!!! Who will conduct such a test while all that stuff is there?!?! Was this silo so secret that no one even knew about it?
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    • CommentAuthorPanthera
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    It was a fine movie by me. This is coming from somebody that was not looking forward to it. I haven't even seen Indiana Jones 2 or 3. I wanted to see them first, but never had the chance. No hype for me allowed me to enter the theater without the years of waiting all the die hard fans had. I think it was very good.
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      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Some opinions...

    Shia --> nailed it - he IS Indy´s son!


    He is too short.


    -Erik-


    Agree. I find him a really charismatic actor, but he always will look like a teenager.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008 edited
    Talos wrote

    To answer a question... someone asked why there was a road available in the jungle after that "jungle-road-maker-machine" was destroyed. Well, it was not a road but the edge of a cliff...


    So what about all the other road they were on during the sword fight? tongue wink

    Talos wrote

    Why did they have that atomic blast... right next to Silo 51???...


    They gave the impression that Indy had been walking for a while. It wouldn't have been right next to Silo 51, but probably in the same area (I thought the reason the Russians got into the base so easily was because it was empty due to the bomb tets?).

    But one thing that makes no sense is why you'd keep every single artifact like that all in the same building. I know it's a story, and in all honesty I don't really care, but I think it's quite comical how silly the US army are at protecting the worlds rarest artifacts. biggrin
    •  
      CommentAuthorjedizim
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    Talos wrote

    My personal big question is: (and correct me if I overlooked something)

    Why did they have that atomic blast... right next to Silo 51???... I mean, all those artifacts vaporized (the Ark for example)!!! Who will conduct such a test while all that stuff is there?!?! Was this silo so secret that no one even knew about it?


    I don't think the atomic blast was right next to Hanger 51...after all, Indy took a long rocket sled ride away from the hanger, and then hiked what we have to assume was AWAY from the hanger as well. That shot when he first viewed the "town" it looked like it was several miles away, so to me, he was probably many miles away from Hanger 51 leaving it intact after the atomic bomb test. That is my theory at least...

    As for the rest of the movie...I have been a huge Indiana Jones fan most of my life...I saw Raiders in the theater 6 times, and it is my favorite movie of ALL time. I love Temple and Crusade as well, think they are both great movies. The new one, I enjoyed for the MOST part. I was entertained by it, enjoyed the action scenes and the interaction between the characters, didn't care for the "tarzan" bit, wasn't bothered in the least by the groundhogs, LOVED seeing Marion again, thought Shia was perfectly fine, thought they over did the CGI just a LITTLE bit, but for my money, it was well worth it...and I have seen it twice already...and will probably see it again.
    ---- Well, I wouldn't argue that it wasn't a no holds barred, adrenaline fueled thrill ride. But, there is no way you can perpetrate that amount of carnage and mayhem and not incur a considerable amount of paperwork.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008 edited
    I must say I am warming to the score a bit, but sadly only to things like ''A Whirl Through Academe'' and ''The Jungle Chase''. slant

    I wish the militaristic motif that comes in at 2:29 in The Jungle Chase (after the stupid monkey bit) was used more throughout the cue.

    Gaah, the warehouse chase had the best action music of the movie. sad
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Shia --> nailed it - he IS Indy´s son!

    He is too short.

    Comes after his mother then. I´ve no problem with it. Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. wink

    His Swordfight --> over the top, but loving it

    Hella gay! Totally hella gay! Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. This was in no way keeping with the Indy feel. It was a pointless, silly sword fight that might have worked if there was some suspense and realism in the sequence. Shia balancing between the two cars getting hit in the nads over and over again... cheap. Totally cheap.

    I would agree that the execution sucked a bit, but I find the general idea of him being able to fence a nice step forward; he´s not an Indy clone, totally doing his own thing, and I like that.

    His Tarzan thing --> WAY over the top, but... well hate would be too strong... I didn´t like it

    Cringe. Maybe without the monkeys it might have worked. But the CGI monkey's sucked LARGE!!!

    I didn´t notice that. I was too shocked by Shia´s stunt. biggrin

    The Alien Thing --> I loved the whole thing. Everything about it. Everything.

    Love the idea... the execution sucked! However, The Departure was brilliant!

    I loved how the saucer´s interiors had been overdecorated by the fellowers; when all that fell apart and they looked above to see that... dimensional shift thingy... it felt very real and frightening. Loved that. I even like the joining of the bodies.

    Overall, this Indy adventure is from the Fifties, not only in story, but in style as well. They did everything to get that across. The car chase at the very beginning, the nuclear tests, and the alien plot, it fits all together. If the trilogy was an hommage to the old serials, this was an hommage to Richard Arnold and his B-/C-movies, and a brilliant one, I think.

    Atomic Test Area --> This felt totally out of place, BUT I liked it. That freezer thing was pure Indy stuff. As was the waterfall. Look at Temple of Doom (and the Mine Chase) again and tell me what was sillier.

    Agreed that the Atomic Bomb was out of the place you can't compare the waterfall to the Mine Car Chase. Except for the jump over the unfinished track the rest is easily believable and way more exciting. The key word is excitement. It was an essential action sequence in the film. The waterfall in Skull had no point!

    Well, it got them as far away from the Russians as possible for a few hours. But I would agree on the excitement level.

    Marion --> Yeah, she looked good. Yeah, she grinned a bit too much. Yeah, I loved seeing her again.

    The grinning was just fine especially after Indy's "None of them were you" line Perfectly delivered and a perfect reaction by Marion. However, after that, Marion was useless and unnecessary.

    She did that waterfall stunt. biggrin
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    She did that waterfall stunt. biggrin


    And very coolly, too!
    I loved her "yes, dear"!

    I love Marion.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008 edited
    I think we can all agree on the fact that we liked her return much more than a potential Willie return...? shocked
    •  
      CommentAuthorTalos
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    Thanks for your answer/theorie regarding my Silo 51 question, that explains it. I forgot about that rocket slide thingy and such... hehe. Anyway recalling that part now... I really think that the whole Silo 51 scene was very solid and the score too.

    ps. that jungle road, is perhaps the same road the Russians made, somehow they took that road backwards.
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    •  
      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    I saw the movie for the third time.

    If it not was by the fridge, alvin and the chipnuts and the tarzan Scene, this movie could be a real winner.

    I love it! from Spielberg vibrant direction to the Amazon Landscapes (more the real than the CGI) to the Alien thing!!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    Nautilus wrote

    If it not was by the fridge


    Certainly don't want it getting cold do we? biggrin

    alvin and the chipnuts


    The chipnuts... classic. biggrin
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Shia --> nailed it - he IS Indy´s son!

    He is too short.

    Comes after his mother then. I´ve no problem with it. Even the smallest person can change the course of the future. wink



    See: Napoleon
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    Martijn wrote
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    She did that waterfall stunt. biggrin


    And very coolly, too!
    I loved her "yes, dear"!

    I love Marion.


    You DO have a thing for Grammas, right?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008 edited
    Steven wrote
    Nautilus wrote

    alvin and the chipnuts


    The chipnuts... classic. biggrin


    Hehe. It's chipmunks Nautilus. But they weren't chipmunks - they're tiny little cute things. These were more like "prarie dogs" (what a crap name), or marmots or something. dizzy
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    Martijn wrote
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    She did that waterfall stunt. biggrin


    And very coolly, too!
    I loved her "yes, dear"!

    I love Marion.


    You DO have a thing for Grammas, right?


    He's an old man, remember? Gramps!