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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    My gripe with LAIR is total lack of originality, Williams thematic rip-offs and Goldsmith in the action tracks, lack of imagination in melodic development and arrangements which sound technically perfect and out of the box ready-made but otherwise lack pathos and emotion; in huge, violent contrast to PASSION OF THE CHRIST (score and symphony) or Dragonfly, just to name several EXCELLENT Debney scores instead. And i just can't stand Lisbeth Scott's wailings in this one, she sounds like totally bored through her cold performance and completely uninspired, in turn in contrast to her work in Williams' excellent MUNICH, just to name one. It just annoys me that when someone plagiarizes Williams and Goldsmith then it's all ok with everyone whilst others get burned to the ground for doing the same but not with the above-mentioned. I am not saying to anyone what to like and what now but to me, if they ever developed a computer that could provide an original score in just 10 hours when given some variables, LAIR is what it'd sound like.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
    plindboe wrote
    Another one that makes me laugh out loud is not music per se, but the dialogue on Poledouris' "Adventures of Conan". Anyone else have heard this one? That guy playing the baddie is ridiculously funny, worst overacting ever.

    Peter smile


    It just makes me cringe, to be honest. I'm SO happy the actual suite is on the CD as well.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    My gripe with LAIR is blablablablablablablabablabla


    D., get with the program, buddy!

    With an ostentatious and painful lack of any really exciting adventure score since Williams decided to be "mature" and Goldsmith and Poledouris decided to be dead, this is simply the next best thing. Debney makes a fantastically fun amalgam of everything I (and a host of others) love about early Williams/Horner/Goldsmith/Poledouris adventure scores! It's rolicky, it's humongous and it's just oodles of fun.
    In fact, it's not even trying to find its own voice; it's as much an hommage to the Grand Masters as anything I've ever come across, and is definitely up for most enjoyable score of the year as far as I'm concerned!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Glad you like it mate - and for everyone else that did so too, but i am not getting with anyone's program besides mine since i am not convinced otherwise. No lack of the originals will ever elevate any score on auto pilot by anyone else, as far as i am concerned, especially when that "anyone else" has proven capable of truly beautiful, genuine and singularly fantastic works like the ones mentioned above.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
    Bah humbug. Passion leaves me absolutely stonecold. A boring excercise in percussion that gets on my nerves after about ten minutes (which is fine because then the boring underscore sets in). I know Debney said he heard voices and saw lights and Gods came down from Olympus or where the hell ever to show him burning batons or whatever which inspired him to do this score in a religious fervour, but I swear he was just on the whacky baccy again!
    Damn hippy!

    I'm just so happy that in this day and age where experiments in atonal texture have inexplicably taken the place of anything recognizable like ,say, a melody (and I DON'T bloody mean 3 subrecognizable notes hidden somewhere before a pointless crescendo, never to be repeated, yet clung to as if if it were a bloody lifebuoy by those apologists who -undoubtedly under the influence of controled substances themselves- kling to their mad (or possible Godgiven) conviction they heard a THEME!), that ONE composer has jumped OFF this intellectual bandwagon and has just created something we had to go without for nigh to twenty bloody starving YEARS! And by now with foam and spittle dripping from my bloodshot eyes, I will continue to rave that this IS a program to get on board with, and a new direction for an art that seems to have lost its way in the last decades and slowly now is starting to come to terms with that old adage from that old Dutch painter Mondriaan who said "Art must be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."

    Of course I still wouldn't wipe the shit of my cat's behind with the paintings he did, but whatever.
    By thunder.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Martijn wrote
    And by now with foam and spittle dripping from my bloodshot eyes, I will continue to rave that this IS a program to get on board with, and a new direction for an art that seems to have lost its way in the last decades and slowly now is starting to come to terms with that old adage from that old Dutch painter Mondriaan who said "Art must be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."



    Sorry dear friend, I won't agree with that one either. What program would that be? And why should i follow it? There are a lot of constantly popping up examples of composers who aren't just sunk to that current, yet; Phillipe Rombi, Giacchino, every single note by Yared, Desplat, Roque Banos, a lot of newcomers around that carry surprisingly interesting musical expressions and shout to be heard, many showcased through MovieScore Media by now, Powell, Kaczmarek, Iglesias, Danna, and the list is really longer. Composers who are constantly coming up with ways and new routes to do stuff, to innovate, to stir, to move. I won't just go celebrating with the flaggy out on my balcony, yet, just because (another) one decided to pay (another) well-executed "homage" to (again : sigh : ) the Williams' and Goldsmiths' and Horners', all in 2007 (08 in very short time, to be precise). I'd take the outstanding masterpieces that are the originals in fact over the clones anyday. I'll also continue to rave instead, when the next unknown film composer or one of the afore-mentioned indeed comes up with something slightly new but that will immensely move me, without sounding like a well-executed exercise on William-isms.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
    If any of the aforementioned would even coming as flagwavingly, soulsearingly, bassthumpingly close to a full twenty-one gun salute to a bygone era as Debney did, I'd be onboard with that.

    But I ain't.

    Now excuse me while I go listen to a generous helping of Krull and Quigley Down Under and cry in my port.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Martijn wrote
    If any of the aforementioned would even coming as flagwavingly, soulsearingly, bassthumpingly close to a full twenty-one gun salute to a bygone era as Debney did, I'd be onboard with that.

    But I ain't.

    Now excuse me while I go listen to a generous helping of Krull and Quigley Down Under and cry in my port.


    Ain't heard Lair?

    Pal, if your crying in your port over Quigley Down Under and Krull, I can only presume it's with the JOY of such rampamt greatness biggrin tinged with a large bite of sadness at the loss of such a great composer sad

    Ahhhh the joy of music. Salute! beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Wow, what a catfight. biggrin

    Me, I just love Lair because it is a funny, shameless rip-off that does not want to be something else. I have far more problems with scores which sound like the old masters but try to persuade us of their originality. Lair is just nothing but Debney sceaming, "Look, I can do them all. I rule! I RULE!!!" with a big, fat grin in his face, and I would pad him on the shoulder and say, "Yeah, brother, you rule. You did it!", and we´d laugh our asses off.

    Lair is a joke that you just don´t get, Demetris. Nothing wrong with that, and I understand absolutely where you´re coming from; I just think you take it too seriously.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
    Timmer wrote
    Pal, if your crying in your port over Quigley Down Under and Krull, I can only presume it's with the JOY of such rampamt greatness biggrin tinged with a large bite of sadness at the loss of such a great composer sad


    Spot on, Timmer. Spot on. sad

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Wow, what a catfight. biggrin


    Yeah, I was feeling particularly belligerent and annoyed with modern scoring last night.
    It's all in fun, though, even with blood splattering all over the place. wink

    Me, I just love Lair because it is a funny, shameless rip-off that does not want to be something else. I have far more problems with scores which sound like the old masters but try to persuade us of their originality. Lair is just nothing but Debney sceaming, "Look, I can do them all. I rule! I RULE!!!" with a big, fat grin in his face, and I would pad him on the shoulder and say, "Yeah, brother, you rule. You did it!", and we´d laugh our asses off.


    Excellent analysis, Ralph. punk
    That's exactly what Lair is and why it endears itself to me so much.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Thanks, man. It is just pure fun to sit there, listen to it and yell, "Hey, that´s a Goldsmith track", "Hey, there´s Star Wars action", "hohoo, that was Horner´s danger motif", "wow, he even did Rosza..." and so on. Just fun. I would love to know if the guys who ordered Debney to do the score even KNOW about what he did. The backstory of this score would be very interesting to know.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
    Now THAT would be good!
    Can't we get a representative of the site to do a Debney interview?
    I think Bregt, Demetris, Jordi Jon and Southall (and quite a few more) all have some excellent contacts in the business!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    You know why i am giggling? 'Cause it seems to me that the only ones that are taking the score as a "fun little joke" and telling me to lighten up is you; unlike the makers / Debney himself who actually take this pretty serious in fact, even more than i do.

    http://www.gametrailers.com/player/18615.html

    I wonder what your response to someone who would be using the same arguments as you but to defend "300" as a fun little game of look at me i good Goldenthal-isms would be; wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Well, beside all that "copying", writing a piece like Lair still is a lot of work. You can be very serious about doing it "right". But I can´t imagine that Debney didn´t know what he was doing there. It´s obvious from the video now that those game producers knew nothing about it, but Debney must have. The similarities are way too obvious for that. Maybe he was doing that as a little joke for himself, I don´t know. And he would be an idiot then to talk about that in front of a camera.

    I don´t know an inch about 300 and Goldenthal similarities, so I can´t possibly comment on that one.

    Edited to add:
    Well, I don´t want to be an ass or something. I don´t know what Debney was thinking, I just know what I am thinking when I listen to Lair. I´m having fun, and that´s it. Taste is taste, so feel free to be annoyed by it, but I doubt we´ll see heroic stuff like this too often in the future, which is a shame, and reason enough to enjoy it while it keeps coming, even if it´s in such a downright way like Lair.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Well on your first point, i beg to differ a bit; my own experiences so far have showed me that - most of the times, things aren't as pleasantly naive or well-spirited as they might appear to people outside the business wink

    On your 2nd paragraph, you're absolutely right; i agree with that What's there's there and it's a matter of personal choice for anyone based on their taste whether to enjoy the hell out of it or not and also that i too doubt scores like that will frequently come our way, in the near future.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
    Wow, the "Lair" thing is endless! (no offense guys, I mean in it in a good sense smile ). If Debney knew how much we´d be talking of his score!
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
    Christodoulides wrote

    I wonder what your response to someone who would be using the same arguments as you but to defend "300" as a fun little game of look at me i good Goldenthal-isms would be; wink


    The main difference is of course that Goldenthal's work, no matter how much or little you may appreciate it (which, again, is a matter of taste) is -with all due respect- nowhere near as iconic as the Great Classic Action Scores more or less referenced in Lair. And that's what makes that one fun (and funny).

    The references are so abundantly clear that it would even make a non-filmscore nut sit up and smile and think of Star Trek III, Conan, Indiana Jones and Rambo. And that's the difference: the joke (or hommage, or reference for want of a more neutral term) works because it's so unsubtle.

    It's more or less the same reason why the James Bond theme or The Good, The Bad & The Ugly whistle reference/joke in a myriad of films work (even though these are of course way better known than the examples in Lair, but the principle is comparable): people do recognize it and are able to put a frame of reference against it, immediately hitting the right emotional buttons.
    In the case of Lair these buttons may be less obvious to the casual listener, but to us score lovers it's one huge party of recognition, making me smile for the first time in a looooooong time of score listening.

    Yup. I think Ralph pretty much nailed it. smile
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
    Marselus wrote
    Wow, the "Lair" thing is endless! (no offense guys, I mean in it in a good sense smile ). If Debney knew how much we´d be talking of his score!


    I like talking about this score better than about Passion. smile

    Christodoulides wrote
    You know why i am giggling? 'Cause it seems to me that the only ones that are taking the score as a "fun little joke" and telling me to lighten up is you; unlike the makers / Debney himself who actually take this pretty serious in fact, even more than i do.

    http://www.gametrailers.com/player/18615.html


    Oh. sad I was expecting to hear him talk about influences then.
    Rather he talks about how the score works for the visuals and the relative benefits of synths.
    That isn't germane to the "fun" point at all, and doesn't show whether or not he consciously referenced anything. But like Ralph said: we'd probably never get anything from anyone that would admit to that fact.
    America, Land Of the Lawsuit, remember? sad
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2007
    Tomandandy's big, heroic ending to the The Hills Have Eyes remake made me laugh out loud! It's just so pompous, such a breaking in style of the rest... it's ridiculous biggrin
  1. I always have to laugh when I'm listening western scores (not only the comedy westerns) by Morricone.
    • CommentAuthorJoep
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2012
    Antineutrino, have you heard Il Grande Silenzio? I think the problem with some of these well known Italian westerns scores is that they've been used for a huge amount of parodies, which makes it hard to appreciate as something serious.
  2. The big "bwaaaa" note in Inception made me laugh inapprioriately in the the cinema.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2012
    You're weird.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.