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How hard Is it to compose a good tune?
Music Making » How hard Is it to compose a good tune? (Posts 31 to 34 of 34)
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- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
ok...3:00 oclock.
I remember Horner saying : I wrotte all Titanic tunes in 1 hour. Writte a good tune is easy for a composer.
What do you think? Is easiest compose a good tune than compose without a tune?
What do you think is more important : the tune or the orchestrations?
You can see AVP2 (orchestrations) and At world's End (tunes) or Golden Compass (Orchestrations) and Narnia (tunes) as an example of both cases.
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- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
I know in the music documentary on the Indiana Jones DVDs that Williams said he spends the most time on ironing out simple themes trying to get them to sound just right.
I suppose it depends a lot on the composer. -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Zimmer seems to spend a lot of time with his themes...in particular I remember him saying something about struggling to come up with a perfect theme for Pearl Harbor. (though that could be just 'cause of how he felt about the film... )I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Scribe wrote
Zimmer seems to spend a lot of time with his themes...in particular I remember him saying something about struggling to come up with a perfect theme for Pearl Harbor. (though that could be just 'cause of how he felt about the film... )
Like trying to get a hard on for Sarah Jessica Parker?On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Timmer wrote
Scribe wrote
Zimmer seems to spend a lot of time with his themes...in particular I remember him saying something about struggling to come up with a perfect theme for Pearl Harbor. (though that could be just 'cause of how he felt about the film... )
Like trying to get a hard on for Sarah Jessica Parker?
Eh? The ugly one wasn't in Pearl Harbor.
It is hard to compose a good melody and/or theme. I think it's always possible to write/orchestrate for a symphony, using crappy themes. But I think that, without a "good" theme/melody to glue it all together, it would all end up up as a bunch of interesting (if that) noise.
Narnia doesn't just focuses on the thematic material but also the overall sound that those melodies covers. And I don't understand using AWE as an example either. AWE and Narnia is a good example of having good melodies and the the right sound (in term of orchestration and arrangement) for it. And what about AVP2? Is that that one from Brian Tyler? I didn't think it's been released on the web yet. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Timmer wrote
Scribe wrote
Zimmer seems to spend a lot of time with his themes...in particular I remember him saying something about struggling to come up with a perfect theme for Pearl Harbor. (though that could be just 'cause of how he felt about the film... )
Like trying to get a hard on for Sarah Jessica Parker?
I know "the ugly one" wasn't in Pearl Harbor lp......do I really have to explain?On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorWyatt
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
I think it might also have to do with how good the movie actually is since that is 'supposed' to be what you're getting your insparation from (or at least from my understanding it is). And whether or not its musically inspiring, you then have to fit what a director says they want from the music, which I'm assuming would probably take quite a good understanding with the director as well in order to produce something good. -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Timmer wrote
Like trying to get a hard on for Sarah Jessica Parker?
You are a very evil person.
And so right! -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Wyatt wrote
I think it might also have to do with how good the movie actually is since that is 'supposed' to be what you're getting your insparation from (or at least from my understanding it is)
It should be, but lucky us it´s not always this way. For example, Goldsmith´s "First Knight"; the score is simply amazing and the film is....well, crap. Had Goldsmith had to be inspired by the film, mate the score would have sucked. And we could find many many examples like this. In the other hand, we have Debney and his "Passion" score. The man became so involved with the project and "inspired" by the images that he delivered one of his bests (and then the Symphony).
As for the topic itself, well, this is an endless discussion, but I think the key it´s both: the tunes/themes and the way they are arranged/orchestrated. But even then we´ll have hundreds of opinions. Take Debney´s "Lair" for example (sorry Demetris, I can´t help it ). Nobody can deny it has plenty of themes and plenty of arrangements and orchestrations of these themes. But how many times have we talked about "Lair´s originality, rip offs, "technically-perfect-but-average", etc.
So there´s "something" (I dunno how to call it) that puts a score together (it´s the tempo, the arrangements, something that a musical trained person can add) and makes it THE score.Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Ralph Kruhm wrote
Timmer wrote
Like trying to get a hard on for Sarah Jessica Parker?
You are a very evil person.
And so right!
HAHAAH Timmer rules!Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorJoep
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
''How hard Is compose no tune?'' attracts me more -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Joep wrote
''How hard Is compose no tune?'' attracts me more
But the answer is veeeery easy. And veeeeery short. Gustavo "I have two Academy Awards but I still don´t believe it" Santaolalla.Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
See?
Everyone is buying into the "I can't hear anything, so it's gotta be good" philosophy.
Personally I blame Philip Glass.
(But then I blame him for raised taxes, global warming, the extinction of the dinosaurs, the taste of Twinkies and volcanic eruptions in Malaysia as well).'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
Nautilus wrote
ok...3:00 oclock.
I remember Horner saying : I wrotte all Titanic tunes in 1 hour. Writte a good tune is easy for a composer.
What do you think? Is easiest compose a good tune than compose without a tune?
What do you think is more important : the tune or the orchestrations?
You can see AVP2 (orchestrations) and At world's End (tunes) or Golden Compass (Orchestrations) and Narnia (tunes) as an example of both cases.
In my opinion, it's neither an easy or hard thing to come up with a good tune. For some composers, it just comes naturally for them. The hard thing is finding the right good tune for the movie, and how to use that good tune.
I think a lot of composers try the process-of-elimination approach whereby they keep on composing tunes after tunes until they 'find' the right one. (Zimmer I know uses this process?)
As far as composing and orchestrations go, it's perhaps comparable to a driver and his/her car. The car won't move without a driver (the composer), and the driver won't get very far without the car (the orchestrations). But put a great driver in a bad car, and it would still be impressive. Put a bad driver in a great car and it might get messy.
And yes, Sarah Jessica Parker is FUGLY. :shudders: -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
Marselus wrote
Joep wrote
''How hard Is compose no tune?'' attracts me more
But the answer is veeeery easy. And veeeeery short. Gustavo "I have two Academy Awards but I still don´t believe it" Santaolalla.
I think Santaolalla is far smarter and cleverer than what the majority assumes he is.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
QED
He got two Oscars with next to nothing and an already existing score, didn't he?'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
Martijn wrote
QED
He got two Oscars with next to nothing and an already existing score, didn't he?
But is that his fault? In both Brokeback Mountain and Babel, imho, the score works perfect and the film would even suffer from a more prominent score. He deserves the Oscar, I think, he just got it for the wrong projects. He should've gotten one for Diarios de Motocicleta. His Oscars don't diminish his composing abilities, though, and I still think he's a very fine composer. -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
No no, I was agreeing with Demetris, that he managed to do something right in a very clever way I -admittedly- do not understand or agree with. So it's not a matter of "fault" at all!'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Martijn wrote
No no, I was agreeing with Demetris, that he managed to do something right in a very clever way I -admittedly- do not understand or agree with. So it's not a matter of "fault" at all!
Ah. Right. Sorry, I misunderstood
Well, see it as a general post for all the Santaolalla-haters, then -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm a Santoalla hater alright.
(Not entirely true, but it's one of "those" composers again. Soft textures. Personal grudge. Pay it no mind. )'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007 edited
Martijn wrote
See?
Everyone is buying into the "I can't hear anything, so it's gotta be good" philosophy.
Personally I blame Philip Glass.
(But then I blame him for raised taxes, global warming, the extinction of the dinosaurs, the taste of Twinkies and volcanic eruptions in Malaysia as well).
Probably due to his incredibly powerful work ITAIPU
Not sure about the Dinosaurs bit bud? But I s'pose that could be related to the volcanoes?On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorpmrsim
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Tune is easy.
What to do with once you got it is the hard part. -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
pmrsim wrote
Tune is easy.
What to do with once you got it is the hard part.
Exactly. The big guns of musicianship and knowledge one must have kick in exactly at the point where you're done composing the tune. What you'll do with it as far as a coherent musical form of a piece is concerned is the toughest part, to turn that into a piece with a beginning, middle and end, with coherent and meaningful musical phrases; then you must put stuff underneath (harmony) and around it (arrangements), decide on the instrumentation, right correctly for each instrument (as in meaningful and also possible to be played), interweave one with another and altogether with the theme......the list is endless but i too agree with Peter that it's the first and easiest part of the whole.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
I don't think composers sit down one morning and decide that they are going to write a "good tune" and out it pops! If they did they'd all be doing it - and it'd be so boring constantly having to listen to good melodies.
Writing a tune that's good (how do you define what is good? Hummable, appropriate for the situation, etc) must be a summation of a lot of things: out-and-out blind inspiration, guidance from the composer's remit, talent, knowledge?
But when a composer hits on a good tune, do they know it? And are they frightened that they'll lose it before they can build on the initial idea?The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
FalkirkBairn wrote
I don't think composers sit down one morning and decide that they are going to write a "good tune" and out it pops! If they did they'd all be doing it - and it'd be so boring constantly having to listen to good melodies.
Well, with the devilish work schedules most of them have to bear, i can assure you that they do sit down and at least try to come up with something good; all the timeLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
Christodoulides wrote
FalkirkBairn wrote
I don't think composers sit down one morning and decide that they are going to write a "good tune" and out it pops! If they did they'd all be doing it - and it'd be so boring constantly having to listen to good melodies.
Well, with the devilish work schedules most of them have to bear, i can assure you that they do sit down and at least try to come up with something good; all the time
They all try! Well, most do.The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
FalkirkBairn wrote
But when a composer hits on a good tune, do they know it? And are they frightened that they'll lose it before they can build on the initial idea?
I think a good tune for a film composer is one that works for the situation/character it is meant for. And any thematic material probably was worked on/refined for a while before it is considered to be a "worthwhile". I don't know if composers "know" necessarily that their melodic material is memorable (if that's the point), but I think it's more important that the material works for its intended purpose. -
- CommentAuthorpmrsim
- CommentTimeDec 7th 2007
I think a "good tune" is a melody that clicks with the composer. I can try endlessly to come up with an elaborate 16-bar melody... and fail miserably. Then out of nowhere come the 4 simplest notes, but you know exactly what to do with hem, how to orchestrate, vary with them... etc. When it clicks for the composer, it'll click for the listener. -
- CommentTimeDec 14th 2007
Interesting topic.
I can imagine it's a lot like writing, constantly scrapping and polishing and finally throwing it all away and starting over. Or like a brainstorm. Having 100 bad ideas for one good one.
What I wonder about is what it sounds like in their head. Do they try tunes only on the piano? Or do they try with different instruments or just imagine the entire orchestra playing it? It sure sounds different on a cello than on a whistle or someone singing it.
If I try to make up a melody (something I almost never do), within 1 second it turns into some well known tune . I wonder if that happens to them as well. Would be fun to see that process. -
- CommentTimeDec 14th 2007
Usually it's the piano for the vast majority of the composers out there. Improvising ideas on initial stages and see where it goes from there.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.