The Role of Film Music in Hollywood

It has, absolutely. From Steiner, to this date, the changes are big and obvious.

I guess I'm interested in how/why some composers make the decision to eschew the orchestra entirely today, in favor of a smaller ensemble, or even an entirely electronic score. I remember something that Hans Zimmer said when talking about his work for Inception, he said that he's no longer interested in composing memorable themes (or something like that). It's almost as if the traditional orchestra has become passe, which is a bit sad to me because I think there's still a great deal that can be explored with that medium.

I'm a little all over the place, but I guess I'm saying that I really liked how music was used during the Golden Age, where many films began with an "Overture", where some of the movies' main themes were introduced, and ended with an "Epilogue", where those themes were revisited and ended appropriately. It just felt more like a production than many films do now, where there seems to be more of an emphasis on realism.

I think it's not so much the orchestra itself the whole 'problem', but the presence of film music as they want to produce it these days. It gets from escorting and backing up the visuals and characters via leitmotifs and 'classical' structures and forms (tutti, grossi, soli instruments, mini concertos, movements etc) to providing an aural character for the whole strongly instead, basing it on sound design and rhythm mostly ; the effect, the atmosphere. They also want things simpler, catchy for the youngsters, the 'new ears', closer to what they usually listen to, and memorable for those which equals more 'likes', more sales etc. Therefore smaller motifs, 1 to 4 notes max, come as more easily blend in with the aural veil (sound design, moody textures), easy to digest, not so much 'sticking out' in the 'old fashioned way', more minimalistic, more 'modern' ('cause this is what the rest of the popular genres are doing in similar terms as well) and easier to incorporate into modern orchestrations (closer to rock, more non-orchestral instruments, simpler, fewer chords).

Remember the old virtuoso guitar soli in classic rock and metal? Well, they're all abandoned completely in favor of chords, rhythm, electronics, and rhythm guitar riffs.

With regard to 1-4 note motifs that was mentioned earlier, a lot of today's films are edited in such a way that anything longer than 4 notes would be not "fit" the visuals.

Short motifs are not in themselves bad. Herrmann made a career of using the short motif - and he was never boring in films.

Leitmotifs and long themes then; well, even the older composers don't go for those these days (or they don't let them to).

Zimmer? Where? Inception is one-note motif; don't mistake ostinati for leitmotifs They do leitmotifs but they're more adapted to these days directors' wishes. Don't tell me you hear no difference between Back to the future and a-team. Williams' style has changed tremendously post-2000. Elfman has too gone for darker, rawer sound, a bit less emphasis on the leitmotifs themselves but thankfully still there.

I don't think it's "not true". The average leitmotif from the older composers these days is shorter and in a wholly different style. Or replaced by 2-3,4 note motifs, not actual themes in the classical meaning, like those composers used to do in the previous decades, before 2000. As for the youngsters, most of them don't even use leitmotifs in the original sense at all.

Where in the above text that i wrote did you read "there are no themes"? Man, you are a man of extremes. How can one discuss logically with you?

I think there's a confusion here. A theme and a leitmotif are two different things....or rather, a leitmotif is a particular kind of theme that is not defined by its structure, length or sound but by its use in the film. It's a theme associated with a character, setting, place or concept and it usually appears when there's something particular happening to those characters etc. in the film (although it's a dynamic theme that can change/expands its association over the course of a film or an opera).

Leitmotif is, in other words, just a tool or way to describe a theme's use. Like diegetic/non-diegetic. It's not a sound.

It was kinda directed at the discussion you and Demetris were having, as it seemed like you were talking a bit past each other due to a confusion of said terms.

This is exactly what I was getting at. It seems a lot of scores from Korngold's time worked almost like "wordless operas". But with a few exceptions, that approach has been almost entirely abandoned in favor of what Christodoulides called "sound design."

I know it sounds like I'm lamenting that shift and I am to a small extent, but I think some composers have made that sound design into a fine art. Take Thomas Newman for example...

Actually, those scores are a lot like Empire of the Sun and The River. They are all thematic scores but are necessarily leitmotific. However, A.I.'s is leitmotific as Williams did write a theme for Monica. Minority Report is leitmotific. There is a theme for Anderton's son, Sean. Munich... I'm sorry did you miss Avner's Theme. There's even a theme for Avner and Daphna's relationship.

But for every A.I., Minority Report and Munich you get thematically heavy scores like Crystal Skull, The Terminal, Memoirs of a Geisha, Revenge of the Sith, Harry Potter, etc.



I've listed the Silvestris score above that a brimming with themes. One of his finest is The Mummy Returns. What about Beowulf, Van Helsing.



I agree that films and scores are changing. Directors and producers these days are frightened of thematic, lyrical films scores... but those that aren't are still producing films that lend themselves to classically styled old fashioned film scores - How To Train Your Dragon is a great example of that. On the polar opposite end of the spectrum you get stuff like The Last Airbender.

-Erik-

It's a great motif! IMHO, one of the most creative and memorable character motifs of all time!

-Erik-