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SUPERHUMAN HEARING

General Discussions » SUPERHUMAN HEARING (Posts 1 to 29 of 29)

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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    I want to say as an active member of this film music community that I'm slightly annoyed by comments from Martijn and Erik in regards to digital downloads and the difference quality wise between it and a CD. The reason why is that neither of you listen to me. My $1000 headphone/cd player set up is designed for listening to CD's not downloads. My computer and MP3 player don't have the quality to compare to the Grado/Marantz combination. I can't do an AB comparison so it might very well be true that I can't hear the difference between a 320 digital file and a CD. I'll never know. But what I do say is that listening on the equipment that I have available to me there is definitely a difference. I don't have the money to buy a better computer or MP3 player.
    Tom smile
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorJon Broxton
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011 edited
    To be fair, Tom, I don't think they are saying anything about your equipment, or its quality. What they are saying is more to do with your ears - and everyone's ears - which are incapable of detecting the frequency ranges that MP3 compression removes.

    When you compress a CD WAV file to MP3 format, it is removing the audio range that is inaudible to the human ear to make the file smaller. It doesn't matter whether you have the best system on the planet, the best speakers, and the best headphones. Unless you are a dog, you are physically incapable of hearing it anyway.
    Movie Music UK http://www.moviemusicuk.us
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Jon Broxton wrote
    To be fair, Tom, I don't think they are saying anything about your equipment, or its quality. What they are saying is more to do with your ears - and everyone's ears - which are incapable of detecting the frequency ranges that MP3 compression removes.

    When you compress a CD WAV file to MP3 format, it is removing the audio range that is inaudible to the human ear to make the file smaller. It doesn't matter whether you have the best system on the planet, the best speakers, and the best headphones. Unless you are a dog, you are physically incapable of hearing it anyway.


    I think you're being quite fair in your statements Jon. What I hear is a difference in the audio equipment more than the compression. I have a poor sound card in my computer.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorJon Broxton
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011 edited
    And, again, that's their point. If you listen to a CD WAV on a regular system, and then on your great equipment, the WAV will sound better on your equipment. If you listen to an MP3 on a regular system, and then on your great equipment, the MP3 will sound better on your equipment.

    Their point is that, if you listen to a CD WAV on your great equipment, and then listen to the same piece of music as an MP3 on your great equipment, you will not be able to differentiate between the WAV and the MP3, because the only difference between the two files is that the audio data that has been removed is *inaudible to the human ear*. Saying you can tell the difference between the CD and the MP3 is a physical impossibility if it's been encoded at the same bitrate.
    Movie Music UK http://www.moviemusicuk.us
  5. Can the music at frequencies outside our hearing range affect the quality of the frequencies we can hear?

    I am thinking along the lines of something like resonance. Could very high frequency sound add "something" to audible frequencies we can hear, but their removal then somehow be heard as a change in some property of the music?

    I don't know enough about the subject to know whether even the question is a load of pants. But it is one I always ask when this subject arises.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Tom, Jon summarised it perfectly. smile

    On another note: Alan, interesting you brought that up! It's the exact same point I have been raising for years in the LP vs. CD debate. It waa, however, finally shot down by several sound engineers, who produced a gaggle of information that I only understood for roughly 10%, which indicated that the "lost information" was indeed without any effect whatsoever.

    And as I was only theorising (I really couldn't actually hear any difference), I let go of my theory.
    But it's one that has always struck me as deliciously possible.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Can i haz your earz?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Huh? Mine?
    Sorry, no, I'm rather attached to them.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011 edited
    I've always been a HiFi buff, so I've always considered myself relatively experienced in hearing different levels of quality from equipment to equipment, from recording to recording, from medium to medium and yes -- even from wav to mp3. That is, untill I got tinnitus in 2009, after which many of those skills evaporated altogether (many of the top frequencies being literally cut off from my cognitive facilities).

    But in any case, I definitely subscribe to Alan's idea that if you cut away some frequencies that may not be very audible to people with normal hearing, they may have other kinds of direct influence on the listening experience nonetheless.

    But Demetris should know more about this stuff than I do.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    I have superhuman patience.
    Kazoo
  11. Funny, I'm just now enjoying Superman... he would have had something to say in this topic (agree with Tom I suppose). cool
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Bregt wrote
    I have superhuman patience.


    Yeah, but you're Belgian! wink

    Remember last year when you guys hung around the Kuipke for HOURS after the concert, while I just wanted to move on to a pub somewhere? COME ON, ALREADY!!
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    I was talking to some friends I hadn't met since a long time!
    Kazoo
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Bregt wrote
    I was talking to some friends I hadn't met since a long time!


    You should have brought them to the pub, dammit! wink

    Fortunately (or unfortunately), I can't drink alcohol anymore, so you'll probably see less Beer Impatience with me this time.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    No worries, we can get high on Looza ACE!
    Kazoo
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Bregt wrote
    I have superhuman patience.


    Anthony has the opposite.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    DreamTheater wrote
    Funny, I'm just now enjoying Superman... he would have had something to say in this topic (agree with Tom I suppose). cool


    Just imagine sitting down listening to music with supes, he'd hear crazy stuff like "hear that? the first violinist whispered under his breath that he doesn't get paid enough to play this Tyler Bates shit".
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Timmer wrote
    DreamTheater wrote
    Funny, I'm just now enjoying Superman... he would have had something to say in this topic (agree with Tom I suppose). cool


    Just imagine sitting down listening to music with supes, he'd hear crazy stuff like "hear that? the first violinist whispered under his breath that he doesn't get paid enough to play this Tyler Bates shit".


    lol biggrin

    [also insert wandmacher, haslinger, djawadizanelli, etc)
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Bregt wrote
    I have superhuman patience.


    Now that's a virtue i'd envy.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011 edited
    Thor wrote
    But in any case, I definitely subscribe to Alan's idea that if you cut away some frequencies that may not be very audible to people with normal hearing, they may have other kinds of direct influence on the listening experience nonetheless.

    But Demetris should know more about this stuff than I do.


    Psychoacoustis is a bitch and still a very under-developed area of science (in comparison with other areas that is) but from what i've seen so far, only if

    1) extremely low frequencies that you can't hear, but CAN feel with your body (if your system is able to produce such frequencies)
    2) it's overtones we are talking about, specifically in the higher area of frequencies, which can't be directly heard, but have some influence on the overall timbre of instruments and sounds.

    Still, 2 very extreme cases therefore this is why we argue that a PROPERLY RIPPED (on professional audio equipment, coming directly from the source of the production, that is) mp3 is generally no different than an audio cd on any generic home audio equipment.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    As I said there is no way for me to do a fair test. I can't afford a sound card or a new computer. Somehow I feel there is more to this than just the encoding process. Right now I'm listening to a 1992 DDD recording that is absolutely flat sounding. There is no feeling of presence (high end) yet this is all digital. That tells me that the ear can hear something.

    I recently have listened to three different piano solo albums BSG, Wiseman, and Edwards. You can hear the difference in the piano quality between the three.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
  22. You're still missing the point, Tom. You're comparing apples and oranges. Hearing flaws in a digital recording has nothing to do with type of file you are listening to or the medium on which you listen to it. It's more to do with the way it was originally recorded - room ambience, the type of recording hardware used, the skill of the mixer, etc.

    Listening to three different piano albums recorded by three different engineers in three different studios on three different sets of equipment - of course you are going to hear differences in the recording quality. Everyone can do that. That's not the issue.

    And there is a way to do a fair test - to listen to the SAME piece of music, using the SAME playback medium as you always use, with one encoded as a CD WAV, and one encoded as an MP3 with the same bitrate.
    Movie Music UK http://www.moviemusicuk.us
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2011
    Jon Broxton wrote
    And there is a way to do a fair test - to listen to the SAME piece of music, using the SAME playback medium as you always use, with one encoded as a CD WAV, and one encoded as an MP3 with the same bitrate.


    Yup!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2011 edited
    He's just saying it can be annoying when the "superhuman hearing" comments come up every time someone complains about a sound quality issue wink

    To be fair, I was in the "likely to make a superhuman hearing comment" camp before I bought all my expensive equipment, then I swung to the opposite extreme and thought every little flaw in a Varese release meant the future of audiophilia was DOOMED...now I am happily somewhere in the middle smile
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2011
    I do realize Jon and Erik that I can't ever do a fair test. On the equipment I have it is what it is. My comment about the three piano CD's was a surprise to me. When I listen to say Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto #3 by two different pianists and two different orchestras they pretty much sound the same to my ear. The sound from these were so different it truly surprised me. I suspect that Edwards had a concert Steinway as it was similiar to a classical recording sound.
    Tom smile
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2011
    sdtom wrote
    I do realize Jon and Erik that I can't ever do a fair test.


    Actually... you CAN!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2011
    keep in mind erik that i can't play mp3 files on my cd player. for some reason they don't work but regular cd's do play.
    listen to more classical music!
  28. Does you CD player not play CD-Rs, Tom?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2011
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Does you CD player not play CD-Rs, Tom?


    It only plays original CD's. I can play CD'Rs or MP3's on my computer but not on my CD player. It is broken I'm sure and I can't afford to repair it at this time. For now my system is at least workable.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!

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