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The Man who Steals Threads (Man of Steel)

General Discussions » The Man who Steals Threads (Man of Steel) (Posts 61 to 84 of 84)

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    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013
    Thor wrote
    Curiously, WATCHMEN is the least "Snyder" of all his films (and the one I like the least, personally).

    He's really all about style and wild visual ideas -- sometimes strained in a bit (like WATCHMEN), usually not. It's like a 'stream-of-consciousness' style of filmmaking, where he gets an idea of something, but then adds other elements as they pop into his head. For example -- it's not enough that Superman throws the villain into a train, the train also has to explode and be thrown back! It's not enough that Jor-El flies on an AVATAR-like creature through exploding spaceships, he also has to dive into a sea full of weird plants with human seeds. And so on.

    I really appreciate that style of filmmaking -- using the medium to its full force -- but I can also understand how it can feel overwhelming to those that don't appreciate that approach. It is, however, the "key" to getting a film like MAN OF STEEL, IMO.


    I don't need to "get" anything. Bad direction is bad direction, you can dress it as you like but I call it self indulgent.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013
    My first comment on the movie wasn't meant to be negative. Reading it again now I can see how it sounds that way. It was meant as a first response to what I noticed the most.
    smile

    OK, what did I like?
    I loved all the alien stuff. Planets, ships, clothes, everything.
    I thought Russell Crow was good, loved his part, which was bigger than I thought it would be.
    Cast was good overall actually.

    So, this would be my opinion if I ignore what I didn't like.
  3. The more I think about it the more I am prepared to say: "Go on, give me all the negativity, tell me why the movie is crap." Because then whenever I go to see that movie I can be sure it will be better than I thought it would be. Problem solved. smile

    I think I´m just frustrated that nothing seems to satisfy people any more.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013 edited
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    The more I think about it the more I am prepared to say: "Go on, give me all the negativity, tell me why the movie is crap." Because then whenever I go to see that movie I can be sure it will be better than I thought it would be. Problem solved. smile

    I think I´m just frustrated that nothing seems to satisfy people any more.


    Glass half empty today Ralph? wink

    Recent films I came out of the cinema entertained by.....STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS and IRON MAN 3, both of which I could pick holes in but both of which entertained me greatly.

    THE HOBBIT....I'm probably in the minority in that the films length didn't bother me and I loved the film, I can't wait for the 2nd one.

    And my personal choice for most rewatchable recent-ish films? THE AVENGERS, I loved it.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013
    Timmer wrote
    Thor wrote
    Curiously, WATCHMEN is the least "Snyder" of all his films (and the one I like the least, personally).

    He's really all about style and wild visual ideas -- sometimes strained in a bit (like WATCHMEN), usually not. It's like a 'stream-of-consciousness' style of filmmaking, where he gets an idea of something, but then adds other elements as they pop into his head. For example -- it's not enough that Superman throws the villain into a train, the train also has to explode and be thrown back! It's not enough that Jor-El flies on an AVATAR-like creature through exploding spaceships, he also has to dive into a sea full of weird plants with human seeds. And so on.

    I really appreciate that style of filmmaking -- using the medium to its full force -- but I can also understand how it can feel overwhelming to those that don't appreciate that approach. It is, however, the "key" to getting a film like MAN OF STEEL, IMO.


    I don't need to "get" anything. Bad direction is bad direction, you can dress it as you like but I call it self indulgent.


    I would argue that Snyder is ALL about self-indulgence, but in a positive way. He wants to see how far he can stretch the medium and all the possibilities within. He has never been a good storyteller; that's not really what he's about. I like that kind of megalomaniac, artsy approach. When he tried to be more narrative, like WATCHMEN, it didn't really play to his strengths as a filmmaker, IMO, so that's why I like that the least.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013 edited
    Ralph wrote:
    I think I'm just frustrated that nothing seems to satisfy people anymore.


    Does it? Perhaps you read too much about movies, too many reviews? It is the same choice as watching trailers or not.

    I hardly read any movie reviews, I just go and see for myself.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013 edited
    I never read reviews either, except those for my own magazine. I only write them.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013
    Timmer wrote
    Recent films I came out of the cinema entertained by.....STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS and IRON MAN 3, both of which I could pick holes in but both of which entertained me greatly.

    THE HOBBIT....I'm probably in the minority in that the films length didn't bother me and I loved the film, I can't wait for the 2nd one.

    And my personal choice for most rewatchable recent-ish films? THE AVENGERS, I loved it.

    I wanted to say the same thing! Except I haven't seen Into Darkness yet but I saw the first one recently.

    Also The Amazing Spiderman last year was a well balanced superhero movie.
  9. What didn't satisfy me was the fact that the message of the movie was constantly thrown at me in very cheesy and obvious ways (being reminded that Clark is meant to save the world and change it every 5 minutes). I also didn't like the idea of having shaky camera work for a guy who can fly and burn stuff with his look. The overall seriousness of the project and being unable to take a step back that the very concept of his supernatural skills leads to some potential absurdities for a person living in the real world was also a let-down.

    As cheesy as the 1978 film was, it was at least very self-aware of its own cheesiness and even gave the sense that the villain was just hilarious, but also some of the dialogue and one-liners had a sense of self-awareness of the absurdity of the whole idea, like the scene where Superman saves Lois for the first time:

    "Easy, Miss! I've got you!"
    "You've got me... Who's got you?!"

    That said, the whole Can you read my mind monologue sounded like a not-very-good Terrence Malick film biggrin

    The obviousness and the disappointment with this movie almost hurt me, because the theme the movie tries to depict (trying to realize your own identity, finding out what to do with your life and what it means) means a lot to me and, while obviously I am not the lone survivor of my planet, I still struggle with the question: Who am I?) and it was banalized beyond repair.

    What I did like in context of the 1978 movie was the depiction of Krypton. It's a nice study in the change of aesthetic between years. The 1978 Krypton is a sterile environment, not very far from the sterile vision of space as was defined by Kubrick years earlier. It's funny that it was done between two movies, which I think, killed the sterility of outer space environments for good - first some of the gritty environments of Star Wars (Death Star's design concentrating on grey colors, the Millennium Falcon's design as a smuggler ship and the mess there; as opposed to the somehow more sterile design of Tantive IV) and the blue-collar warehouse-like design of the Nostromo in Ridley Scott's Alien (including some quite gritty character interactions between the crew members).

    Snyder's Krypton is very gritty, not very far from the images I remember seeing from Snyder's own 300 (the color scheme is very similar; I haven't seen the full 300, because my affinity for history turns me off watching a comic-book adaptation of a real story, somehow). It's all pretty dirty, quite dark as opposed to the planet bathed in white as shown by Donner.

    It's funny how the depiction of the contact with Jor-El was much more straightforward in Snyder's film, it was basically normal interaction, as opposed to the Brando face super-imposed over the whole Fortress set. The only little quibble I had with the Fortress was not being aware how the hell did that appear somewhere in the Arctic, but I guess that's called suspension of disbelief. Oh, and I wish I could have seen a bit more of Jonathan Kent, I think that more of him in Snyder's movie was one of its advantages, but still, I wish it was handled a bit less obviously and a bit more subtle.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  10. It largely a matter of age. Those of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s feel alienated by the way mainstream enternainment cinema has evolved. (Exceptions not withstanding.)

    Male kids today name pc games as their primary entertainment media. Movies have to compete with that. That accounts for those overlong action sequences in MoS.

    Also our society has changed. The decline of social wellfare has led to a decline of empathy. Kids today do not connect to movie characters the way they used to. They talk more about special effects than about story and characters. Today's movies refelct that. An emotinally engaging Williams like score is actually disturbing for these kids.

    When I was a kid there was no internet, only a little bit of pc gaming, a handfull of TV channels. A film like MoS had me occupied for weeks, replaying the film with my peers, inventing new stories around those heroes and villains.

    I won't go into all the litany. I also don't mean to say that yesterdy all was better. It's just that times have changed. And when you have aged to 40 or older you don't like to change with them any more.

    That's life.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSarah
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013 edited
    Captain Future wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Thor wrote
    I still maintain that one's like or dislike of this film is 90% dependent on whether or not one likes Zack Snyder and his approach to moviemaking.


    ????

    I've only seen one other Snyder film and that's WATCHMEN which I liked a lot and will champion.


    So have I. In contrast to others I liked WATCHMEN a lot.

    Volker



    I think Snyder has a talent for the visuals but not necessarily the directin. He's like a rollercoaster. Serious ups and downs with all his films. i loved watchmen, but to be honest i think it's charm was that i had not heard or seen anything about it before i watched it, plus i later found out it REALLY sticks to the graphic novel (which is rare)

    300, was entertaining and preeeety to look at. And Sucker Punch (which for those who have not seen it, it's totally a suttle porno), once again way over the top visuals with cool ideas.

    This neither put me off or terribly excite me about watching Man Of Steal.
    "Class is having lunch with the homeless and dinner with the Queen."
    •  
      CommentAuthorSarah
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013 edited
    Timmer wrote

    Recent films I came out of the cinema entertained by.....STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS and IRON MAN 3, both of which I could pick holes in but both of which entertained me greatly.

    THE HOBBIT....I'm probably in the minority in that the films length didn't bother me and I loved the film, I can't wait for the 2nd one.

    And my personal choice for most rewatchable recent-ish films? THE AVENGERS, I loved it.


    THIS GUY. I like his movie choices. I like him beer
    "Class is having lunch with the homeless and dinner with the Queen."
  13. Sarah wrote
    Timmer wrote

    Recent films I came out of the cinema entertained by.....STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS and IRON MAN 3, both of which I could pick holes in but both of which entertained me greatly.

    THE HOBBIT....I'm probably in the minority in that the films length didn't bother me and I loved the film, I can't wait for the 2nd one.

    And my personal choice for most rewatchable recent-ish films? THE AVENGERS, I loved it.


    THIS GUY. I like his movie choices. I like him beer
    Sarah wrote
    Timmer wrote

    Recent films I came out of the cinema entertained by.....STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS and IRON MAN 3, both of which I could pick holes in but both of which entertained me greatly.

    THE HOBBIT....I'm probably in the minority in that the films length didn't bother me and I loved the film, I can't wait for the 2nd one.

    And my personal choice for most rewatchable recent-ish films? THE AVENGERS, I loved it.


    THIS GUY. I like his movie choices. I like him beer


    Hmmmmm ... wink
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013 edited
    Sarah wrote
    And Sucker Punch (which for those who have not seen it, it's totally a suttle porno), once again way over the top visuals with cool ideas.


    *sigh* No it isn't! I suppose you could look at it that way, but I look at it from the perspective of the main characters and from there it's a wonderful taking-back-your-power fantasy for the abused and traumatized.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSarah
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013
    Scribe wrote
    Sarah wrote
    And Sucker Punch (which for those who have not seen it, it's totally a suttle porno), once again way over the top visuals with cool ideas.


    *sigh* No it isn't! I suppose you could look at it that way, but I look at it from the perspective of the main characters and from there it's a wonderful taking-back-your-power fantasy for the abused and traumatized.


    In mini skirts, stockings and bras...
    "Class is having lunch with the homeless and dinner with the Queen."
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013 edited
    yeah
    Exactly. The suggestion of female empowerment as an erotic aspect of dominant male fantasy.... slant

    Watchmen, warts and all, was an almost impossible, incredible and magnificent tour de force.
    I don't give a flying fuck whether cantankerous Alan Moore disavowed it (stop giving interviews already and bring out the next League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen already, you curmudgeonous cunt!).

    Haven't seen Man Of Steel yet, but I'm already aware it ain't Supes as history and popular culture defined him.
    That's fine. So this is another timeline/universe kind of vision that happens to fit the angsty 2010s. Fine. Likely it'll be forgotten in ten years. Fine too.

    Loads of films in recent history I thoroughly enjoyed, and thought were really good.
    Which in no way will impede me commenting on films I find lacking in quality, style or content.
    Things are what they are. Good is good. Bad is bad. Meh is meh.
    goat
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  17. Thor wrote
    I still maintain that one's like or dislike of this film is 90% dependent on whether or not one likes Zack Snyder and his approach to moviemaking.


    I saw the film, and this didn't feel like a Snyder film whatsoever. It felt like Nolan telling Snyder what to do. I saw 300, Watchmen and Sucker Punch and those are Snyder films, bearing his stylistic touch. None of that is present in Man of Steel

    I thought the movie was average, and I was sitting like a zombie through the last hour, nothing thrilling about the fights and destruction whatsoever.

    6 out of 10 (just for the last minute which made the movie so much better, and also the only time I actually smiled)
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013
    Martijn wrote
    yeah
    Exactly. The suggestion of female empowerment as an erotic aspect of dominant male fantasy.... slant


    #1) There is nothing specifically erotic about the way the girls are dressed in the fantasy sections of that film, unless you have already chosen to look at it that way.

    #2) I'm sure girls who are fantasizing about being badasses would imagine themselves dressed as nuns or choir girls rolleyes How should they be dressed? Its like if some abused boys imagined themselves being soldiers, would it be wrong that they imagined themselves in uniforms just because some females find uniforms attractive on males?

    #3) On a similar note, the film wouldn't be much different for me if all the main characters were male. It just makes more sense for them to be girls because girls are more often taken advantage of in those ways in modern society.

    #4) People on the internet are strange. I don't believe I've ever heard a single position opinion of Sucker Punch on the internet, but out of the two people I've discussed it with in real life (my girlfriend and a girl I dated once) both loved the film just as much as I do.

    #5) I actually think its sexist for people to criticize the film the way they do, as if its inconceivable that the main characters would actually want to be dressed that way...
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  19. Martijn wrote
    yeah
    Exactly. The suggestion of female empowerment as an erotic aspect of dominant male fantasy.... slant


    Call in the Bene Gesserit!
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSarah
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2013
    Scribe wrote
    Martijn wrote
    yeah
    Exactly. The suggestion of female empowerment as an erotic aspect of dominant male fantasy.... slant


    #1) There is nothing specifically erotic about the way the girls are dressed in the fantasy sections of that film, unless you have already chosen to look at it that way.


    I guess you think HR Geiger doesn't base his art on genitalia either? wink
    "Class is having lunch with the homeless and dinner with the Queen."
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2013
    Sarah wrote
    Timmer wrote

    Recent films I came out of the cinema entertained by.....STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS and IRON MAN 3, both of which I could pick holes in but both of which entertained me greatly.

    THE HOBBIT....I'm probably in the minority in that the films length didn't bother me and I loved the film, I can't wait for the 2nd one.

    And my personal choice for most rewatchable recent-ish films? THE AVENGERS, I loved it.


    THIS GUY. I like his movie choices. I like him beer


    love beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2013
    Martijn wrote
    yeah
    Exactly. The suggestion of female empowerment as an erotic aspect of dominant male fantasy.... slant

    Watchmen, warts and all, was an almost impossible, incredible and magnificent tour de force.
    I don't give a flying fuck whether cantankerous Alan Moore disavowed it (stop giving interviews already and bring out the next League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen already, you curmudgeonous cunt!).

    Haven't seen Man Of Steel yet, but I'm already aware it ain't Supes as history and popular culture defined him.
    That's fine. So this is another timeline/universe kind of vision that happens to fit the angsty 2010s. Fine. Likely it'll be forgotten in ten years. Fine too.

    Loads of films in recent history I thoroughly enjoyed, and thought were really good.
    Which in no way will impede me commenting on films I find lacking in quality, style or content.
    Things are what they are. Good is good. Bad is bad. Meh is meh.
    goat


    Word! Word! WORD!

    Except for the Sucker Punch comment but that's simply because I haven't seen it.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2013
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    First of all, thanks for getting into the details.

    As to the specific points you make, they are all, in a certain sense, right . I agree that there is a lot more action than we´re used to get in most superhero movies. The flow is different at some points, which happens when you cut back and forth between flashbacks and the present; and of course it does harm the fun to know too much about a movie by watching all the stuff that´s released beforehands.

    But for me all those points are no real weaknesses.

    Too much action in a Superman movie is kind of a luxury I´m happy to finally get, if just to forget all those abysmal Superman series of the past where they tried to cover the fact that they couldn´t have good or lots of FX work by just focusing on the teenage years or the love story between Lois & Clark instead of the Man of Steel in action. Because that´s what Superman comics actually are about, Superman in action.

    Which brings me to point two. The movie is structured that way to avoid an hour of Clark growing up before something big finally happens. I´ll give you that the ride is a bit bumpy, but nevertheless way more exciting than the other way around.

    Third, of course it´s okay to have a good time. But then say so and don´t focus on all the stuff you didn´t like. If you had a good time in general, then why not tell us about all the stuff you loved? Why all the negativity?

    Please don´t take this the wrong way, I´m not trying to single you out or something. I just answer to you directly because you answered to me first. I could do this with almost every critique that´s out there, and guys like Erik know my philosophy for some time now: When I see a movie and want to talk about it later, I tend to look for all the stuff I liked, because I see no reason why I should ruin the fun of a good experience all by myself by focusing on the bad stuff. Hate the story of Star Wars Ep.1? What about the flawless design work? Focus on that one. Just enjoy the good view.

    My point is, there is no flawless movie. If you want to find bad things, you´ll find them. But people´s expectations are astronomical now. If they would have shown us a movie like Man of Steel fifty years ago, it would have been the most amazing experience ever. And stuff like that is what we get every week now, sometimes even on TV. People are simply filled and stuffed. That doesn´t make the movies bad.

    The other week I read an article about all the plotholes and scientific mistakes in Star Trek Into Darkness. They were all valid, but missing the point. So the Enterprise actually can´t stay underwater. So what? Warp tech doesn´t actually work in the first place, too. "Spock´s Brain", everyone? I don´t watch Star Trek for a science lesson, but for having a great time watching Spock being a cool hardass, McCoy bitching about everything, and Kirk holding all that shit together, while a starship called Enterprise soars in space on mighty wings. And that´s what I got. Big time. A fantastic movie. Only this time they even didn´t forget about the stuff that made TV Trek so great, having a valid story about preemptive strikes, terrorism, and the change of politics in the face of dark times.

    I´m not talking about not realising the missteps a movie makes. I talk about just ignoring those and instead appreciating the things a movie does right.

    One more point about experience: Watching trailers and spots is a choice. If you know watching them can ruin a movie experience for you, just don´t. My daughter didn´t want to get spoiled for a single bit of the new Trek. And she perfectly managed to do that, even if it meant to close her eyes for a minute or two when a trailer was unavoidable.

    Edit: Oh, and one more thing. Shouldn´t movies be better? Of course they should. They could always be better. They should strife for better stories, realistic science, perfect flows, perfect music, perfect acting... the list goes on. And yes, there should be discussions about simplifications and plotholes and brutality in movies and whether we should teach our kids better by having better writing in movies. All those points are valid, and I´m all for it. Make movies better. In the meantime, I enjoy what I get.


    Thanks, Ralph, for such eloquence. It's amazing how I feel very similar to you. Case in point, I enjoyed Battleship, because, despite some of the most craptacular story point and ham strung direction, the effects and some of the score(!) was worth it.
  24. lp wrote
    Thanks, Ralph, for such eloquence. It's amazing how I feel very similar to you. Case in point, I enjoyed Battleship, because, despite some of the most craptacular story point and ham strung direction, the effects and some of the score(!) was worth it.

    Thank you very much for your comment. beer

    That said, I have yet to see Battleship, but I am looking forward to it. I do realise how dumb the whole concept kinda is, which is why I´ll be watching it in "Michael Bay" mode, so I´m sure it will be loads of fun, especially with Steve´s score. I´ve only heard bits and pieces of it, which pointed out the similarities to his Transformers work while still adding something different to it, so I´m sure it will be fun. I´ll make sure the speakers are on full throttle so I can appreciate this action-driven popcorn feast as it is meant to be: Brains off, Senses on!

    wink

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