• Categories

Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

 
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017 edited
    Captain Future wrote
    It's a juvenile, cocky, hilarious adventure story, expertly compiled from various sources. So is the music. While the models (Korngold, Stravinsky, Wagner) are obvious, that doesn't diminish the utter quality of the composition. In contrast to Steven I am a big fan of film and score. But I agree, that with the sequel scores Williams comes into his own. The first one was the big nod towards the old masters.

    Volker


    No disagreement from me on any of your remarks, Captain.

    All true: it IS a space-fantasy in the best 30s/40s RKO Republic serial vein. And absolutely true: while several tantalising hooks were already present in Star Wars the actual Epic Myth (including a robust musical universe) started with Empire.... but that doesn't make Star Wars corny (archetypical mythical storytelling has repeating elements, sure, but that doesn't in and of itself constitute corniness), and certainly not camp.

    (Spaceballs is camp. Barbarella is camp. 1980s Flash Gordon is camp. Star Wars really isn't. Not by any stretch of the definition.)
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    Captain Future wrote
    It's a juvenile, cocky, hilarious adventure story, expertly compiled from various sources. So is the music. While the models (Korngold, Stravinsky, Wagner) are obvious, that doesn't diminish the utter quality of the composition. In contrast to Steven I am a big fan of film and score. But I agree, that with the sequel scores Williams comes into his own. The first one was the big nod towards the old masters.

    Volker


    Forgetting I used such blasphemous and Jediphobic words as camp and corny, this is essentially what I'm getting at. I think the first score is fantastic of course, but I prefer the sequels for the reason Volker describes here.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    BUT YOU USED THE WRONG WORDS!
    HOW WILL I EVER BE ABLE TO GET PAST THAT (let alone forgive you)?
    Gawd!!!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  1. Star Wars is absolutely corny. "But I was going to go down to Tosche Station and pick up some power converters!!" Come on.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    It has corny/campy elements, for sure, but it's not an overriding aesthetic the way those other examples that Martijn mentioned have.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Star Wars is absolutely corny. "But I was going to go down to Tosche Station and pick up some power converters!!" Come on.


    Not intentionally corny or campy, so I wouldn't consider it as an overriding aesthetic either. I mean, George Lucas was famously shot down on the set by Ford with:

    "George, you can write that crap, but not SAY it!"

    But that's, again, not intentional on Lucas' side.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    yeah
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  3. It's hilarious. A young man with no military training whatsoever leads the rebellion to victory because he is strong in the Force despite having had just about two hours of training.
    The brilliance of the films is revealed in the fact that it works anyway. We accept the fantasy world in which such things just happen to happen. And of course the conservative idiom of the classical score adds much to make this world believable. Just as the gravitas of actors like Alec Guinnes and Peter Cushing do. Without these actors and with some disco pop score the film would just be an awkward memory, whatever the visuals.

    smile Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    I think you do both the mythic story-telling aspect and the aesthetics of Star Wars a disservice.

    Luke isn't a 'leader': he's the boy that slays the dragon. It's destiny catching up to the unwary. It's utterly archetypical. Star Wars -if anything- is aside from the very strong 30s Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon sensibilities a fairy tale.
    That's no coincidence: it was designed that way, with Lucas talking for a long good time with famed mythologist Joseph Campbell.

    The brilliance of the film is absolutely NOT 'it works notwithstanding'. It's very definitely 'it works BECAUSE'.
    (There are more aspects that contribute to its success at the time, of course, not a minor one being the fact that in a time of eco-scifi that spelled doom and gloom for mankind, this was utter escapism).

    There are plenty of copy-cat sci-fi/fantasy films with great actors that still bombed (or at least were quickly forgotten), but while Guinness and Cushing were wonderful assets, the film would have worked just as well with lesser known actors (of comparable skill, obviously!). It's not a "face" movie, and no one went to see it "just" to see Cushing or Guinness.

    Whether or not the film would have fared worse with a disco-pop score is an interesting intellectual exercise.
    I'm tempted to say that it would not have mattered in 1977, but would now in retrospect seem hopelessly old-fashioned and , indeed, camp. But that is squarely due to the fact that that very sound has become analogous to the concept of 'camp'.

    But it's a non-argument, because it wasn't and it didn't.
    The reason it works and continues to work and keeps on generally enthralling 40 years on can't simply be explained away by nostalgia or any one other factor. It's a clever bit of film making that at the time pushed all the right buttons AND somehow managed to tap into Jungian overtones that made it transcend time and culture.
    Now THAT is storytelling!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  4. O, come on. In how many films did we see the mystical quest, the aventure of the young no-one going into the otherworld, do battel with evil and return transformed. Yes, Campbell and stuff. Lucas knew what he was doing. (He always did by the way.) Actors (also Ford as the anti Guinness), motion control and music made the film. Otherwise he would be Gone With The Solar Wind.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    It's not a perfect film by any means (some of the dialogue is absolutely childish, and Lucas simply isn't a very good people director)...but you can't explain 40 years of enduring general popularity away as a fluke. There simply is something there, even if you can't see it.

    And as I said, i's not any one item. The storytelling bit -however important, essential even!- is just one of the many elements that gelled.
    In that vein you could argue that changing any one aspect -the music, an actor, adding a sparkle filter- might tip the balance...but isn't that always the case?
    Would Gone With The Wind has been as harrowing with Errol Flynn and Bette Davis?
    Would Forbidden Planet have been as powerful with a rock 'n' roll soundtrack?
    Again: that's really squarely in the realm of mere academic exercise.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  5. Steven wrote
    DreamTheater wrote
    Steven wrote
    DreamTheater wrote
    THE FINAL CONFLICT - Goldsmith

    A fitting finale for The Omen trilogy, with equally strong themes but more entertaining underscore.
    For the longest time I gave this 4 stars but now it gets bumped to 4 and a half.
    Goosebumps galore from an almost sublime score. cool


    Why not 5? This is a five star score if ever there was one.


    Because there are still some Goldsmiths that I reckon are slightly better and those get the full 5 stars.


    Would you still rate it as a 4/4.5 if you hadn't heard those other scores?


    That question is impossible to answer, unless I somehow get hold of a time machine, and make my younger self listen to The Final Conflict before any others (or make me see the movie before all the Star Treks, Rambo's, Gremlins's, and whatever else I was into).

    The primary reason it don't get 5 stars, there's about 4 cues at the end (where a real masterpiece should really shine, to get to that unforgettable climax) where nothing really much happens musically, a bit dull frankly speaking. That's the only thing that makes me rate it a bit lower.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  6. RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK

    It's alright. There are better themes by Williams and the action music is a bit derivative but it's perfectly listenable, if a bit overlong.

    To be honest I've heard better scores that were written this year.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    DreamTheater wrote
    RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK

    It's alright. There are better themes by Williams and the action music is a bit derivative but it's perfectly listenable, if a bit overlong.

    To be honest I've heard better scores that were written this year.


    uhm
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    The... can you... hello..? Nurse!
  7. DreamTheater wrote
    RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK

    It's alright. There are better themes by Williams and the action music is a bit derivative but it's perfectly listenable, if a bit overlong.

    To be honest I've heard better scores that were written this year.


    Who are you, and what have you done with Gilles?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    I think he may be being a tad facetious. Just a hunch.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    Steven wrote
    I think he may be being a tad facetious. Just a hunch.


    Yes. On the 'better scores written this year' bit for sure.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  8. Yeah, sounds like a bad attempt at sarcasm.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2017
    Jupiter Ascending Michael Giacchino

    Never usually have time to listen to this but did tonight and it’s some piece of work.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDreamTheater
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2017 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Yeah, sounds like a bad attempt at sarcasm.


    Extremely bad I concur, but it got everybody's attention... tongue
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2017
    NP: Thor: Ragnarok - Guy from Devo

    Surprisingly much, much better than Lego: Ninjago. There's a theme that is used throughout the score. It's not the strongest, nor is it imminently memorable, but it's good and malleable and I like it. It's a better version Brian Tyler's Thor 2 score, and that's always a plus.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2017 edited
    BLADE RUNNER 2049 - Benjamin Wallfisch, Hans Zimmer

    Selections. Need to listen to the whole thing again soon, but was curious how my reaction would be now, a few weeks after my personal hype of wanting to love it and dealing with expectations versus the real thing, and now knowing what it is and judging it for it. This walks a tightrope between being flat and underdeveloped on the one hand, and utterly gorgeous because of its simplicity on the other.
  9. That's the thing with scores like that...they're so subjective. I mean obviously all art is subjective and blah blah blah but you know what I mean.
  10. Nah, then we'd be equating a three year old's crayon drawings with the Mona Lisa. Obviously there is objectivity to it.

    An episode of "South Park" put it nicely when an exchange like this was had:

    "I like ______."
    "But it's crap."
    "But I like it."
    "Well, you like crap."


    Some people just need to admit they like crap and not tell us it's crap because they like it. tongue
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
  11. Personally, I think BR 2049 is a fantastic score. It's getting multiple listens each week.

    I think it fits the obvious visual experience of the world in 2049 - everything is bigger and more massive than before, but without life. It's a fitting concept that the world of the humans is dying, while all that's good and loving in this world comes from artificial life.

    The score captures that brilliantly. Plus, it just sounds spectacularly in places. I recognise that it's droning out any subleties at times, but that's what it's aiming for.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2017
    NP: DISTANCE BETWEEN DREAMS (Junkie XL)

    Brilliant score, one of the very best last year. Probably also my favourite JXL score thus far, composed more after his original electronica strength.
    I am extremely serious.
  12. justin boggan wrote
    Nah, then we'd be equating a three year old's crayon drawings with the Mona Lisa. Obviously there is objectivity to it.

    Have you ever been to that website where it shows you modern art interspersed with toddlers' scribblings and you have to guess what is what? It's not always that easy!

    I don't know, to me there's often a sort of emperor's new clothes effect going on with modern/minimalist/avant-garde art...music as well...people projecting things onto essentially blank slates. Call me conservative if you must, but I prefer art and music that speaks for itself.
  13. Thor wrote
    NP: DISTANCE BETWEEN DREAMS (Junkie XL)

    Brilliant score, one of the very best last year. Probably also my favourite JXL score thus far, composed more after his original electronica strength.


    I'd agree that it's probably his best. Interestingly, except Mad Max we seem to largely differ in our opinions as I actually liked Divergent. I'd also probably like Dark Tower if it... had no action music.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  14. INDY & THE TEMPLE OF DOOM

    So Williams went with a chamber orchestra ensemble performing for the sequel to RAIDERS. An inspired choice on paper maybe, but a lot more mellow approach in the writing and with too many flat out dull moments, after only 10 minutes it becomes a real chore to sit through... And that main theme gets incredibly grating after a while. I mean how many times can one listen to that same Ta Ta Ta Taaa Ta Ta Taaa repeated ad nauseam. The sequel is even more unlistenable than the first one.

    Fuck this, I'll put on some Brian Tyler instead. cheesy
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.