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[Closed] HANS ZIMMER
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- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
Anthony wrote
It's not good that I can only come here once a day now and have to read over 70+ posts that I have no comment on. Damn the new job!
Oh, what are you doing now?I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
Anthony wrote
It's not good that I can only come here once a day now and have to read over 70+ posts that I have no comment on. Damn the new job!
Interesting to see what will happen with the Craziest Poster list now that you are not able to post during work.
Although, that sucks btw!Kazoo -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
Has anyone heard any news about Zimmer's other supposed projects this year? (Frost/Nixon, Casi Divas, Angels & Demons, Madagascar II....)I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
Frost/Nixon
Score (almost?) finished. Movie release in December 08
Casi Divas
Score finished. Movie released in Mexico in April 08. No score release so far.
Angels & Demons
Not confirmed.
Madagascar II
Movie release in November 08. Soundtrack will feature music by Will.i.am. -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
Well, considering the attention that is being paid TDK, maybe they will decide to release a score-only album for Madagascar II as well. We can hope
Also, anybody know anything about his website, hanszimmer.com? It's been "under construction" for like 1.5 years now.I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008 edited
Christodoulides wrote
Martijn wrote
Demetris, perhaps you can tell me whether or not this is true: I've always thought that the trjth behind this stubborn urban legend was that in the very early days of CD, the recording actually *was* clipped (not compressed, mind, but actually clipped) at a certain amount of hertz at the top and the bottom for space purposes.
Now obviously while this wasn't audible, there isa certain resonance in non-clipped audio that affects the bone structure to vibrate sympathetically (especially when using cans). This resulted in many finer-attuned people to complain of the "cold" sound of CDs.
However this clipping has been abandoned very early.
The legend remains though.
This is how it was explained to me by a friend in the music/recording business, but I've never found anything yet in literature to confirm or disprove that.
Any thoughts on that?
It's never been proved, just a myth like the myriads of others humans like to spread.
Here's how it goes:
Supposedly, LP's (because they were direct 'scratchings' / markings of the actual sound waves on the vinyl's surface which were later reproduced exactly by the needle (head) in an analog way instead of the binary digital form of the audio cd and the reproduction by laser beam in digital instead of analog) could descend a bit below the lower minimum auditory limit of the 20 hz for the human hearing * (the lower limit varies between human being though, some (very, very few though) descend to 16 or even 10 hz but nothing's actually 'heard' below 20hz, you just MAY feel it, never hear it) and that, while not audible it is said to have attributed the particular "warmth" and "depth" to sound which LP lovers accuse CDs to lack.
Now, lower frequency ranges in the sound are indeed partly - but not solely - responsible for the warmth and depth of a sound (whilst high ones are responsible for clarity) but the whole thing is nothing but a myth, for 3 main reasons:
1) Nobody got into the laboratory / studio and actually had his hearing frequency scientifically measured.
2) People who carry these claims always know in advance what they are listening to and that filters their perception tremendously (see below for more)
3) As psychoacoustics and academics of sound / sound engineers will tell you, the whole theme it's subjective up to a very large degree as our hearing system which functions on sensations and not clear-cut events, is possibly the most advanced and deeply complex thing we have in our bodies and it has - and never will - never functioned in the simple way the LP lovers put it to be, i.e. IT IS THAT AND NOT THIS. It takes experiments and researches you'd never thought possible and still, nobody would ever be sure, at least with today's scientific standards.
It's SO VERY complex. To put it very roughly for everyone to understand - you only need to take into account that sound waves (ups and downs of air pressure) enter your ear, are filtered and amplified via the movement of 3 inter-connected bones which form a marvellously functioning, united system and which themselves vibrate the ear drum which then passes them to the cochlea and the sound nerves which transform mechanical energy to electrical (electrical signals) which are - and this is where things get very complicated - passed to the brain as electrical signals and as such the auditory events are analyzed and rendered as acoustical / musical sensations. That's what Psychoacoustics study, an area which is very premature and preliminary itself and i think you realize now that listening to stuff in your very own house to stuff you control and you know about in advance (something which - as i told you before - is very crucial as to how unbiased and 'real' your acoustical perception is, and that is proven) and actually CLAIMING that you KNOW what you're listening to, is - at least - ridiculous.
You'd never believe (and believe me, I've been there) what specially designed audio experiments on perception in a sterile environments (specially formed studios) in situations TOTALLY UNCONTROLLED by you would do to your standards on what you thought you were listening to all this time, up to that point. You'll be shocked, amazed and never listen in the same way you did before;
Or at least never claim you actually know exactly how you listen, even again
Here's a paragraph from a Time's article i always held dear to my beliefs
"Every advance in recording has been accompanied by the cries of those whom technology has left behind. In 1949 a British critic complained, "I ask readers if they want to feel that their collections of records are obsolete, if they really want to spend money on buying discs that will save them the trouble of getting up to change them, and if they really want to wait years for a repertory as good as what is now available to them." He was defending 78s against the encroachments of the new long-playing records in much the same terms that LP defenders cast their arguments today. And no doubt there were those who bemoaned the loss of their Edison cylinders when shellac came in."
Well. I have to say -- I think this post ranks top for...
THE MOST INFORMATIVE POST OF THE YEAR!(TO DATE AND SUBJECT TO CHANGE)
Anyone agree?
Thanks guys -- I've always wondered about the LP/CD deal. Really, nice job explaining and presenting things!
M. -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
Great stuff. Many thanks for taking the time! -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
D., am I correct in deducing then that the whole bone resonance story is a myth as well?
At least I can imagine that, even though there might be a measurable frequency at which bone startes to resonate, this too would be completely dependent on other factors like -to keep to the human biology alone for the moment- thickness of the skull, blood pressure, cavities, et cetera?
If so, it obviously doesn't matter what frequency at what time was clipped to whatever level, as it would be experienced subjectively and differently every single time.
If NOT though, I 'd still like to find out if there was at one point a time where music for CD was *indeed* clipped.
Even though you go to great and coherent lengths at explaining the subjectivity of the whole experience (and you're quite right too, and thanks for taking the effort to explain it so fully), I still am looking for any kind of objective data that might be used to convince the non-believers.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008 edited
BINGO!
Combining a couple of articles I managed to find (with some difficulty! It's like nobody ever thought about this issue in other terms than personal preferences! ) :
In the beginning of digital media compact discs were often perceived as "thin"-sounding, with sharp—distorting sounds on the high end.
There are two explanations for this:
1) in the early daysrecord companies issued CDs produced from master recordings that were compressed and equalized for vinyl.
2) early consumer compact disc players may have contained 14-bit digital-to-analog converters, instead of the correct 16-bit type, as a cost-cutting measure.
Some players were even only linear to 10 or 12 bits.
Modern anti-aliasing filters and oversampling systems used in digital recordings have reduced both these problems.
Like Demetris eloquently stated, differences between digital and analogue audio are generally inaudible to normal human hearing, and the lack of clicks, hiss and pops from analog recordings greatly improved sound fidelity.
The "warmer" sound of analog records is generally believed on both sides of the argument to be an artifact of harmonic distortion*) and signal compression**). This phenomenon of a preference for the sound of a beloved lower-fidelity technology is not new; a 1963 review of RCA Dynagroove recordings notes that "some listeners object to the ultra-smooth sound as ... sterile ... such distortion-forming sounds as those produced by loud brasses are eliminated at the expense of fidelity. They prefer for a climactic fortissimo to blast their machines ..."
The theory that vinyl records can audibly represent lower frequencies that compact discs cannot (making the recording sound "warmer") is largely a myth.
According to Red Book specifications, a CD has a frequency response of 20 Hz to 22.05 kHz, while our hearing is sensitive to frequencies from 20 Hz to a maximum of around 20,000 Hz.
This means that any frequencies that a vinyl record can represent that a compact disc cannot would be *inaudible* and thus completely subliminal.
However,the lower frequency limit of human hearing can vary per person, and interference caused by sound in the lower inaudible spectrum can still influence audible sound (the already discussed sympathetic vibration of, for instance, bone). So it's possible that low frequency sources from an LP could affect audible frequency ranges!
*) Spurious harmonics produced by the sound system or the medium itself. Usually not quite as objectionable as intermodulation distortion because harmonics occur naturally in music. Even though good amplicfiers and speakers will minimize this type of distortion, apparently LPs are more prone to this particular type of distortion then CDs.
**) Compression of the dynamic range. The dynamic range is the difference between the lowest and highest perceivable non-distorted sound. CDs have a greater dynamic range, so should sound cleaner...or, as some would put it, more sterile. With LPs, a really good mastering engineer, whose job it was actually to cut the master disk, would develop a reputation for the ability to take a master tape and translate that into the best compromise the physics of an LP would permit. Sometimes that would mean using a "compressor" to reduce the dynamic range, bringing down the loudest peaks and raising the volume of softer passages.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
I guess it's a similar case of when you hear something live as well. There's that ''sonic rumble'' you get which can never be picked up on a recording. -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008 edited
Martijn,
Yeap, i.e. what i told you before It was the transition from one format to another that created some initially dodgy CDs, not the medium as a fully developed whole, as we have it today.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008 edited
Martijn wrote
D., am I correct in deducing then that the whole bone resonance story is a myth as well?
At least I can imagine that, even though there might be a measurable frequency at which bone starts to resonate, this too would be completely dependent on other factors like -to keep to the human biology alone for the moment- thickness of the skull, blood pressure, cavities, et cetera?
If so, it obviously doesn't matter what frequency at what time was clipped to whatever level, as it would be experienced subjectively and differently every single time.
If NOT though, I 'd still like to find out if there was at one point a time where music for CD was *indeed* clipped.
Even though you go to great and coherent lengths at explaining the subjectivity of the whole experience (and you're quite right too, and thanks for taking the effort to explain it so fully), I still am looking for any kind of objective data that might be used to convince the non-believers.
Yes, yes and yes.
Every material (including human tissues, bones, muscles and everything) have a basic frequency that when matched by a vibrating sound of the same basic frequency, the amplitude of the oscillation of the material (in this case ,the bones) is at maximum. Think of a plane passing very close over your house, the windows' grinding is due to resonance between the very low (and loud) frequencies of the plane's engines and your windows' basic frequencies.
Now, when put into a human being, just because our body is SO heavily complex and with SO many different materials (tissues, liquids of all kinds, blood, bones, everything) i think everybody understands how all those basic frequencies of the different materials are interweaved into a mixup soup since we have more than one material and most importantly - as everything touches and influences each other and also blood and liquid passes through them further changing and mixing the acoustics of the body. To find basic frequencies to which certain bones resonate, is beyond logical levels.
And even if they did, you wouldn't even feel them at the sound levels music is being reproduced at home.
Now, if you go into a club and have your stomach and bowels resonating and co-oscillating for 2 hours with the tremendous amounts of deep loud bass, now THAT IS RESONATING YOU CAN FEEL AND TELL and which eventually make you either deaf or sick or both and comparing that 60-80 dB of pure bass that shakes your whole system with the incomparably smaller sound levels - 99% not even discernible dB that MIGHT be there in SOME LP recordings that the human ear won't even hear or be able to discern due to its structural limits, yes, that's subject for stubborn tech-haters with too much time on their hands.
If only they devoted that time to actually study acoustics, psychoacoustics and how we hear.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeMay 29th 2008
Top man.
Between your expertise and my Googling, I'm getting to the bottom of all of this.
Cheers!!
:thumbs up:'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008 edited
Whoow.
I'm gonna read this later. But shouldn't it b handy if this was posted in a separate topic?
EDIT: Right, I can see clearly now. Cool!Kazoo -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
My heart sinks when I see a topic that has 50+ posts in the past 24 hours (other than in the NP topic). A Zimmer "discussion" is usually at the bottom of it - though that can be forgiven in the Zimmer thread.
Thanks for pulling out the interesting stuff and giving that discussion a separate topic.The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
Scribe wrote
Has anyone heard any news about Zimmer's other supposed projects this year? (Frost/Nixon, Casi Divas, Angels & Demons, Madagascar II....)
Unless Angels and Demons records by the end of the year Zimmer won't do it due to his plans to take 2009 off.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
PawelStroinski wrote
Scribe wrote
Has anyone heard any news about Zimmer's other supposed projects this year? (Frost/Nixon, Casi Divas, Angels & Demons, Madagascar II....)
Unless Angels and Demons records by the end of the year Zimmer won't do it due to his plans to take 2009 off.
A YEAR without ZimmerOn Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
He'll be a producer and in tour.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
2009 will be the year of Giacchino... Lost Season 5, Star Trek, and Land of the LostI love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
Scribe wrote
2009 will be the year of Giacchino... Lost Season 5, Star Trek, and Land of the Lost
I don't even want to think of disagreeing with you, but isn't this the Hans Zimmer thread? -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
Bregt wrote
Anthony wrote
It's not good that I can only come here once a day now and have to read over 70+ posts that I have no comment on. Damn the new job!
Interesting to see what will happen with the Craziest Poster list now that you are not able to post during work.
Although, that sucks btw!
Man, it's such a bum now. I spend all day at work, come on the forums when I get home, post about 5 things at the most, and then visit a couple more times later in the evening and post a couple more.
My ranking is at risk! -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
Anthony wrote
Scribe wrote
2009 will be the year of Giacchino... Lost Season 5, Star Trek, and Land of the Lost
I don't even want to think of disagreeing with you, but isn't this the Hans Zimmer thread?
Well, we were talking about Zimmer being off in 2009. And usually Zimmer scores are what I look forward to every year. So instead, in 2009 I will be thinking about Giacchino.I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
Ok, you are forgiven. -
- CommentAuthortimme
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2008
There is an interview online with Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard on www.filmmuziek.com. They talk about The Dark Knight. -
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2008
PawelStroinski wrote
Scribe wrote
Has anyone heard any news about Zimmer's other supposed projects this year? (Frost/Nixon, Casi Divas, Angels & Demons, Madagascar II....)
Unless Angels and Demons records by the end of the year Zimmer won't do it due to his plans to take 2009 off.
YES!!!
When I find the day out, I will have a little party.The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else. -
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2008
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Knight-Hans- … amp;sr=8-1
I highly doubt they've got the correct cover scan -
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2008
BobdH wrote
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Knight-Hans- … amp;sr=8-1
I highly doubt they've got the correct cover scan
Does this mean they'll be using Elfman's themes! -
- CommentAuthorBasilB
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2008
At least they tried... -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2008
I've heard they are supposed to make references to Elfman.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2008
PawelStroinski wrote
I've heard they are supposed to make references to Elfman.
Eh? Where have you heard that?I am extremely serious.