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The effect of film editing on film scores

General Discussions » The effect of film editing on film scores (Posts 1 to 4 of 4)

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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008 edited
    I just had this idea while pondering the discussion in the John Williams thread and listening to Attack of the Clones on repeat all morning.

    How much do you think Williams' change in style over the last few decades, and the changes in film music in general, have to do with the way films are being edited?

    To clarify, I do NOT mean to start another discussion on directorial choices and how "free" the composer is to compose a score how he wants to. We've had that discussion before, and we have it every time a new MV/RC score comes out tongue

    What I mean is this: does the trend towards hyperactive, ADD, change-shots-so-fast-you-can't-even-tell-what's-happening editing REQUIRE a different kind of scoring than older-style editing does? Do the frenetic nature of action scenes that are edited in this way necessitate an equally frenetic musical composition? Does sweeping, melodic music like we have for the asteroid chase in ESB or the chase/flying scene in ET even make sense when there are no longer sweeping, epic shots in films that last for longer than 0.384 seconds? It's not like composers like Williams have lost their touch for melody: Attack of the Clones is proof of that. I think its something approaching film-music blasphemy to suggest that John Williams is not CAPABLE of, for example, turning "Across the Stars" into an epic action set piece like the arena battle. How amazing would it have been to have such a cue combined with an epic, extended shot of Anakin slashing his way through the droid army to defend his love? But there is no such scene. The way that battle is edited in the film, I can't imagine any part of it that would actually make sense with such a musical piece.

    It is sad, I think. But my point is that the stylistic development of Williams and other composers over the years may have as much to do with necessity as personal preference. Do you really think Williams would derive no pleasure from composing another ESB or ET?
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  2. It's something that should be pointed out and I glad you did it, Matt. It's quite an important aspect of the recent fashion in film scoring. Zimmer's methods wouldn't work for The Sea Hawk, but they did for Pirates of the Caribbean. Williams managed to change - look at Indiana Jones 1 and, say, Minority Report. Total difference in filmmaking, not only because of different DP (Kaminski as opposed to Slocombe), but also using more modern style in general - acting, editing, everything. And Williams pulls it off.

    I would give another example, sadly deceased, of a great chameleon - Jerry Goldsmith. A lot has changed between, say, Sand Pebbles and Sum of All Fears. And he adapted perfectly to all editing changes. Some composers refuse to do it. I guess that and some personality traits are the reason behind Barry not getting any work. Schifrin DOES work recently, though not as much, but also - see Rush Hour! - adapted very nicely.

    I think a popular composer not dealing with those changes, when it comes to functionality, may be James Horner. This is why his more electronic efforts of recent often sound rather awful (The Life Before Her Eyes may be one of Horner's very best electronic efforts, the same for House of Sand and Fog, but Beyond Borders in it's Cambodia tracks and The Forgotten are pure duds). He has definitely a problem. He also managed to learn restraint recently. And that's good.

    There was a constant argument regarding Pirates of the Caribbean 1, where more traditional listeners were protesting against the fact that it didn't sound like Korngold. OK, OK. Yes, the score wasnt the best ever and wasn't even a very good one in any means other than (rather amazing for MV standards) functionality. Today it's a great listen, works great in the movie, even if detractors disagree with it.

    Where did it come from? I guess all is about technology. Commercial-music video scene influenced professional filmmaking - if it didn't, there would be no Michael Bay today. Think of it. Filmmakers are more responsible for the decline of quality of film scores than any composer ever could.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008
    This is indeed an important point, and maybe (despite what I spent most of last night passionately saying) the biggest influence on the change of film scoring - modern technology allows editors and directors to keep fiddling with their films far longer than ever before. Take something like Raiders of the Lost Ark, which was probably edited to pretty much its final edit (possibly apart from visual effects) when it was first passed to John Williams to score, and then he had a month or two to write the score for a film which was already locked. Just wouldn't happen today. I guess you could use the Star Wars films as an even more potent example - and it is of course why the big finale from Attack of the Clones doesn't have any original music.

    It is also what allows Zimmer's empire to thrive - that model just works perfectly to be able to re-score things at the last minute when the film keeps changing.
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  4. James' point is very important - the trend of film makers to fiddle with their movie right up to the last possible moment. And this means that the composer doesn't really have the chance to go back and change the whole fabric of a cue to take into account the changes. Music editors just re-edit the musical cues into a patchwork. And with the loud sound effects of these movies any edits in the music can be camouflaged.

    But when composers are presented with movies that are full of quick edit sequences is there not a trend to just mirror the edits in the music. So what we get is just small cells of rhythms, motifs, etc without there being an overall arc to the music? I have the sense that it wasn't always this way. Composers used to be able to compose cues that were based more on the overall feel of the sequence on fast edits rather than mirroring the on-screen antics.

    I have this recollection of montage sequences being highlights of several scores: maybe older examples of fast editing but tending to be scored in such a way that it's a highlight of the score. (I know people are going to ask for examples...I'll think on this!)
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn

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