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Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

 
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008
    Reading these posts is like trying to learn a new language! I have no idea what some of this stuff is your talking about. A ceiling cat on a cupcake table? Now if you want to talk about Olivier in Rebecca I'm your guy!
    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008


    LOL This is awesome! shocked cheesy biggrin
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
    TheTelmarine wrote
    LOL This is awesome! shocked cheesy biggrin


    Hehe. wink These people certainly have alot of spare time.

    Peter smile
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
    Indeed but it's insanely funny.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthortjguitar
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
    Southall wrote
    Doing it for new releases which are freely available for legal download, or physical purchase, is just plain wrong, and I'm amazed at the number of people who freely admit to doing it on these forums and encourage others to do the same.


    I have to disagree with you James, with as much limited crap that gets released, and the budget being so small, I have no moral issues with downloading stuff that I know will be available for a few years and that I can always buy eventually when the money comes around. Plus DLing helps weed out the scores you don't like, saves you money from getting disappointed and then not making $$ back on the sell. I don't really see the huge difference between in print stuff and out of print stuff.

    Is it illegal? Of course it is, but so is taping stuff off TV and not destroying it after one viewing. Something that a lot of people don't seem to have as much of an ethical issue with.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2008
    It's amazing (and slightly disconcerting) to see the tone of voice with which this very subject was discussed over at the FSM board (I admit to having been curious what drove the generally so even-tempered Moontrekker to pack up and leave).

    I am honestly relieved (and not just a bit proud) to find everyone here civil enough to engage in proper conversation and discussion were points are made and actually listened to, even when there is no agreement or consensus. It's the very definition of civilized and enjoyable debate.

    Bully. Bully for all of us.

    Just needed to get that off my chest.
    Carry on.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2008
    Bully. What a desperately underused word! I love it.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    Timmer? Why is the basement cat after Timmer as well?



    He marked my cards looooooonnnnng ago.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008 edited
    Folks! If you don't understand that this kind of piracy ultimately can KILL a small label like MovieScore Media, then I don't know what to say. Doing one copy for a friend is one thing (this is "old school" and perfectly allright in my opinion), but putting a link to an album on the internet for everyone and anyone to download without allowing one single cent to go back to the composer, the record label or the film company is SERIOUSLY HURTING the business.

    If you don't see that, I can tell you from personal experience that it is! Case in point: A few of our albums have not sold as good as I was hoping, and those titles are exactly the ones that I can find on various torrent sites and soundtrack blogs! I just can't see this as pure coincidence.

    From a philosophical perspective, I can understand that people download stuff that is available for free. It's just one click away. The BIG problem is the idiots who make this music available in the first place, posting torrents or links to downloadable albums.

    I am not alone fearing the worst. I did an article with Robert Townson (Varese Sarabande) on the subject. You should read it here and give it some thought: http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=109

    mc
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Sorry, any article that is so full of "Can", "May" and "Possibly" generally carries little weight with me.

    And in the meantime study after academic study comes out indicating the absence of any links between purchasing music and (illegally) downloading music. In fact, any non-industry sponsored study suggests downloading leads to MORE purchases (something I can attest to from personal experience).

    I understand the industry's fear, but as I indicated before: this is not the customer's problem. Whether you agree with it or not, whether the law is ambiguous in several countries or not, whatever your personal thoughts, downloading will never again go away.
    There is only one way forward and that is for the industry to get with the program AS YOU YOURSELF ARE DOING AND PROVING, Mikael, offering, as one of the very, very VERY few, high-quality, DRM-free downloads for VERY reasonable prices.

    The "woe is us, poor industry" fear mongering has proven a crock from day one, with small, independent labels jumping into the fray all over the place. Again, YOU, Mikael, are my best case in point!

    The TRULY big problem is an industry that's stuck in the fifties, and would prefer it that way.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008 edited
    I'd like to see some proper evidence instead of speculation and assertions. Seems that the file sharers say that the promotional effect increase sales and the other side say that file sharing decrease sales. There's so much bias in this discussion and everyone somehow ends up seeing exactly what they want to see. How about some skepticism? How about recognizing that there are many factors involved and that it's no simple matter to estimate how the sales are affected? Below are some inestimable, possible factors, I'm sure one can think of others.

    *We don't know how many of people who have downloaded an album freely would have bought the album had it not been available to download.
    *We don't know how many people who ends up buying an album due to being impressed by it after downloading it freely online, and prefering the better quality of a CD, liner notes and the physical product.
    *We don't know how many people buy albums that they otherwise wouldn't have, because they gain respect, recognition and people to trade with for making the album available to others online.
    *We don't know how much extra buzz there are on message boards and blogs concerning certain albums due to file sharing and more people therefore having heard the album and having an opinion about it. We don't know how many extra sales such buzz results in.

    No doubt there are both factors that can increase sales and factors that can decrease sales. Trouble is, these factors are almost impossible to estimate. What we need is some quality studies. Only one I found so far is this one, which seems to indicate that file sharing can have both positive and negative effects on sales. No doubt more research is needed before any of us can take any definite conclusion.

    Peter smile
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    I wouldn't say it's completely barren territory, and the best conclusion of the Harvard study Peter refers to, in its researchers' own words, is that there seems to be NO correlation beween downloading music and purchasing it.

    If there's any independent or academic study that proves or even suggests otherwise, I'm still to hear of it.

    So far though, simply base don the evidence available, I find myself squarely in the camp of those who feel that the industry should change rather than the law or the customer.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Martijn, when you say that the industry should change - in what way? In what way do you feel that MovieScore Media should change, for instance? Should we give away all music freely on the internet (if "customers" are already doing that, why not do it ourselves) and then hope that it will create so much buzz that people will come running after the CD?

    Just interested in hearing your thoughts.

    smile

    mc
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Mikael, with all due respect (and I honestly DO respect you and what you do A LOT; in fact, you're a bit of a role model for me shame ), but you seem to be reading a bit selectively.
    I do *not* advocate (nor have I ever done so) giving music away.
    In fact, as far as MovieSCore Media is concerned, I already stated that I actually think you are the very vanguard of the new industry, providing high-quality downloads, without any strange restrictions placed upon them, for a very reasonable price!
    That's EXACTLY the way of the future.

    It's not likely downloading is EVER going to stop, and some studies (as quoted earlier) do indeed suggest that part of the psychological reason behind the (measurable) fact that there seems to be little to no correlation between downloading and purchasing music, may lie in the fact that music being freely available may create a "buzz" that attracts customers.

    Aside from the fact that it's only a partial explanation (and in fact more a hypothesis than an explanation) with a small business as yours, I hardly think though this is a business model you'd be very comfortable with now, would you? wink

    So let me turn the question around:
    Do you have reason to believe that your sales numbers are affected by illegal sharing? Are your sales numbers significantly different from what your market research suggested? Do you get negative feedback from customers who think your issues are too expensive?
    I'd honestly be interested!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Martijn wrote
    I wouldn't say it's completely barren territory, and the best conclusion of the Harvard study Peter refers to, in its researchers' own words, is that there seems to be NO correlation beween downloading music and purchasing it.

    If there's any independent or academic study that proves or even suggests otherwise, I'm still to hear of it.


    Thanks for the links. I think the washington post link shows quite well the uncertainties involved by citing conflicting studies. The Harvard study says that there's a positive correlation between file sharing and downloading among popular music, while there seem to be a small negative correlation with respect to niche audiences. I'd like to read the study itself though, it's a bit difficult estimating its validity from a press release.

    I think that the best we can conclude from the links presented so far is that there are alot of uncertainty, and more interestingly, that the effects of file sharing aren't in any way as pronounced as the music industry fears.

    Peter smile
    • CommentAuthortjguitar
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    In the late 90s, early 2000's I used to DL all of my rock music and such and never really thought anything of it. However, once I started getting into film music, it was impossible to find most of this stuff online, especially on mIRC which is where I got most rock music. Now scores seem to be around if you know where to look....but I got into the habit of buying, so I guess I still do, LOL. I'm proud of my growing collection, I'm not sure it will ever be "complete", I can't feel sympathy for labels with the amount of $$ I chuck at them for this stuff. Not saying it's not money well spent, because it is, but $20 for a CD is relatively expensive compared to movies, video games, and other media. :D
    • CommentAuthorJoep
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008 edited
    Martijn wrote
    In fact, as far as MovieSCore Media is concerned, I already stated that I actually think you are the very vanguard of the new industry, providing high-quality downloads, without any strange restrictions placed upon them, for a very reasonable price!
    That's EXACTLY the way of the future.


    I wonder if this is really the way of the future... The good thing about the label is that it offers scores in mp3 as well as cd's, but not all of them. I would at least buy 5 scores if only they were available on cd... I do not intend to pay for mp3's only, not ever. And I'm a person who often sticks with most of its believes. If someone ought to do a proper study about it, they should also include people who might stop buying music if its mp3 only. It amazes me that it's rarely mentioned, because this can also make a significant difference.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    I didn't say MP3s are the way of the future. smile
    But they're the best (= most efficient) thing around right now.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthortjguitar
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Joep, i doubt it's as big a number as you think. If peopel are givne the ultimatum to either pay for downloads, or stop listening to music, I doubt they're going to stop listening to music.

    Of course, maybe the older generation already has a gigantic amount of CDs and would retire, but from peopel who are fans of current films and new music? It's just not going to happen....
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    CD's are STILL ridiculously expensive. Especially the new releases; There’s something for the labels to consider.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorJoep
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Perhaps I'm overrating the number of people. But I think your ultmatum example is rather pour tjguitar.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    CD's are STILL ridiculously expensive. Especially the new releases; There’s something for the labels to consider.


    I second that! beer
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    ......and for the so famous Mr.Varese as well.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthortjguitar
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Joep wrote
    Perhaps I'm overrating the number of people. But I think your ultmatum example is rather pour tjguitar.



    My example was only based on what you said: "If someone ought to do a proper study about it, they should also include people who might stop buying music if its mp3 only." Which to me says, If CD's are no longer produced, it will have an adverse effect on music sales.


    If that WASN'T your point, then what was it?
    • CommentAuthorJoep
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008 edited
    Yes, that's what I meant. But your example was bad, because it isn't like;
    -if people won't download mp3's for money, they don't listen to music.

    It's more like;
    -if some people won't download mp3's for money, and have no acces to a cd release, they can still download the music for free and listen to the music.

    I can see that influencing the business.
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    Martijn wrote
    Mikael, with all due respect (and I honestly DO respect you and what you do A LOT; in fact, you're a bit of a role model for me shame ), but you seem to be reading a bit selectively.


    shocked I did? I would never do that. ironyironyironyirony shame

    Do you have reason to believe that your sales numbers are affected by illegal sharing? Are your sales numbers significantly different from what your market research suggested? Do you get negative feedback from customers who think your issues are too expensive?


    No such negative feedback. However, as I stated earlier, I have detected a certain connection between lower sales figures and the appearance of the very same albums on filesharing networks. I cannot, of course (and this is one of the problems with this whole issue), proove that this has anything to do with how many copies of the cds are actually sold, but it is at least a little "odd"! rolleyes

    Hey, thanks for the kind words, by the way kiss

    mc
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    I too respect Mikael!!! What is to prevent a company like Intrada from releasing a very limited amount of a CD, say 500 copies at a really premium price, such as $24.95 and then also offering a 320 lossless download for a lot less say $12.95. This would satisfy the old buyer who is still using his 1950's rotary phone and tube radio yet allow anyone to purchase the music, satisfying the listener. Am I way off base?
    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!
    • CommentAuthortjguitar
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    320 lossless? That's a contradiction! 320kbps is lossy, AFAIK. :D
    • CommentAuthortjguitar
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008 edited
    Joep wrote
    Yes, that's what I meant. But your example was bad, because it isn't like;
    -if people won't download mp3's for money, they don't listen to music.

    It's more like;
    -if some people won't download mp3's for money, and have no acces to a cd release, they can still download the music for free and listen to the music.

    I can see that influencing the business.


    How are they going to download the music for free if nobody releases the CDs to be ripped from?

    Nobody's going to PAY for downloads and then LEAK it for everyone else. Well, maybe they would, just seems like it would go against the principle of those actually paying for it, lol. maybe not. maybe people woudl team up and go halvsies and split the bill or something. wink