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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    Demetris wrote
    it's that's too much fuss about this composer, without much reason, imo.


    I gave you a lot of reasons! Go back and listen to them again! IMO, I think you are ill-informed about what Shore can do as a film composer!

    -Erik-


    Reasons according to you, not me smile
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2012 edited
    Demetris wrote
    Thematic structure and overall form of all the compositions; the musical vision as a whole; you hear glimpses of that in Hobbit , but you just know, it's never quite there.


    You can clearly hear thematic structure and musical vision in most of his scores. He's not going to write a leitmotiv, grand, epic score for everything that he does but there is narrative flow in just about everything he writes.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2012
    Yeah but in other scores he COULD write those, he never reaches the quality of LOTR.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2012
    Demetris wrote
    Yeah but in other scores he COULD write those, he never reaches the quality of LOTR.


    Examples?

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  1. Demetris wrote
    Bregt wrote
    You are really looking for trouble, aren't you D? wink

    Why do you say that? Because he disappointed you the past few years? I though Cosmopolis was actually really good and quite different.


    Cosmopolis could be written by anyone with a knowledge in the ambient sound; others write as such, and even better, but nobody cares - or even dismiss them, 'cause they're not Shore. As for the rest of the body of his work, nothing even comes close to LOTR. Thus, this is why i say he's overrated, apart LOTR, that moment in his career.


    Please tell what these scores are by lesser known individuals. I'm looking forward to hearing them. wink (Seriously -- Cosmopolis, which I understand is a bit like Breaking and Entering in owing a lot to the pop collaborator, is a style of music I like. I don't often hear it for films. Shore's CRASH shares some characteristics with it.)
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  2. I'd be interested in creating a very whittled down version of THE HOBBIT score to listen to. (Do a bit of editing, cross-fading etc.) Can I get a list from people who've been through this a few times what the 5 best moments in the music are for each of you?

    These ones are obvious inclusions for me:
    1. The energetic portions of the 'Radagast the Brown' music (for the regular edition version of the track: 0:01-2:40 or so, 3:40-end)
    2. The pacey chase of 'Warg Scouts'. (perhaps just from 0:59 onwards to the end of the track)
    3. The thunderous 'Out of the Frying Pan' -- probably most of it, although the action does double up a bit at times and a few bars could be dropped here and there.
    4. 'The Adventure Begins' (0:41-end or 1:14-end depending on how it can be edited)
    5. 'Dreaming of Bag End'.
    And to be honest, I'd find it hard to overlook the Neil Finn song, but it may be hard to edit in with the score.

    The idea is to end up with something with the essentials. Any other bits come to mind for people?
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorJosh B
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2012
    I'll give you the four tracks I would keep and not edit anything out of at all.

    1: My Dear Frodo
    2: Radagast the Brown
    3: Out of the Frying Pan
    4: A Good Omen
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    Demetris wrote
    Generally tolkien (..), as years pass by i truly believe that Shore is overrated; with the exception of the very inspired LOTR scores.


    How much of Shore's music have you really explored?

    His back catalogue pre-LOTR is quite impressive especially his work for Cronenberg where he was the most creative. The Brood, Scanners, and Videodrome. Those three are unreal featuring some of the most creative film scoring I've ever heard! Then there's the operatic The Fly, the charming Big, the horrific The Silence of the Lambs, the passionate Philadelphia, the playful Ed Wood, the dark and disturbing Se7en, the truly messed up Crash, and the incredibly colorful and epic scores to The Cell and Looking For Richard. This, ALL written before LOTR. Quite an impressive line-up of scores, IMO.

    What's even more remarkable about Shore are the handful of scores he wrote WHILE he was working on LOTR. The Score (one of the great jazz scores), Spider, Gangs of New York and Panic Room.

    After LOTR he continued to write solid music... The Aviator, A History of Violence, The Departed, Eastern Promises,
    A Dangerous Method, Hugo, and Cosmopolis.

    So, as you see (and hear) I'm really having a very hard time classifying Howard Shore as overrated.

    -Erik-


    yeah
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    Demetris wrote
    Yeah but in other scores he COULD write those, he never reaches the quality of LOTR.


    Examples?

    -Erik-


    yeah
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  3. Josh B wrote
    I'll give you the four tracks I would keep and not edit anything out of at all.

    1: My Dear Frodo
    2: Radagast the Brown
    3: Out of the Frying Pan
    4: A Good Omen


    A valid view. I'm not so keen on all the male chorus stuff in My Dear Frodo -- interesting to hear that it's a highlight for some.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  4. Here's a few tracks that I'd suggest. I don't know the music well enough yet to suggest specific passages in each of the tracks, but they are mostly short enough not to outstay their welcome intact.

    1: Old Friends
    2: Axe Or Sword?
    3: Under Hill
    4: A Good Omen
    5: The Edge of The Wild
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  5. Cheers Alan smile
    I'm guessing you find the more actiony tracks a bit relentless?
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  6. It looks like it doesn't it? I hadn't realised this until I chose my 5. Perhaps the quieter tracks offer more variety: lots of action scoring covered in original trilogy.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2012
    franz_conrad wrote
    Demetris wrote
    Bregt wrote
    You are really looking for trouble, aren't you D? wink

    Why do you say that? Because he disappointed you the past few years? I though Cosmopolis was actually really good and quite different.


    Cosmopolis could be written by anyone with a knowledge in the ambient sound; others write as such, and even better, but nobody cares - or even dismiss them, 'cause they're not Shore. As for the rest of the body of his work, nothing even comes close to LOTR. Thus, this is why i say he's overrated, apart LOTR, that moment in his career.


    Please tell what these scores are by lesser known individuals. I'm looking forward to hearing them. wink (Seriously -- Cosmopolis, which I understand is a bit like Breaking and Entering in owing a lot to the pop collaborator, is a style of music I like. I don't often hear it for films. Shore's CRASH shares some characteristics with it.)


    Don't be ridiculous, there's tons of such scores around, Martinez, Isham, Zarvos, Brion, there's a lot of such ambient scores around; and it's nothing like Yared's / Moucha's Breaking and entering..where did you hear that in Cosmopolis? I'd be interested to know.

    Erik Woods wrote
    Demetris wrote
    Yeah but in other scores he COULD write those, he never reaches the quality of LOTR.


    Examples?

    -Erik-


    Well, for starters: Hobbit.

    Then there's SUN
    Hugo
    The Twilight Saga: Eclipse which is dreadful, really.

    But generally talking, apart his obvious LOTR style, there's very disappointing stuff like Doubt , the last mimzy, Panic Room and others; i've heard the old scores you mention and those are definitely not my style;

    I really like the Aviator and Eastern Promises if you also remember my reviews; as i said, i do like him, i even like Hobbit. My point is that he won't reach the LOTR scores again, most probably, and the bar is always sitting up there with people expecting him to. This is why i say he's overrated but once again, you took my point and took it to other extreme that suits your rants wink Leave it there if you don't agree, i can't stress enough once again how i am not dissing him, i actually like him, but not to the point that most make him out to be; if you still want to assume the opposite of what i am saying, then please go ahead wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorJosh B
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2012
    A valid view. I'm not so keen on all the male chorus stuff in My Dear Frodo -- interesting to hear that it's a highlight for some.


    I tend to like Shore's more primal material. It's also a great introduction to the score because it introduces a good chunk of the new themes.
  7. Moucha didn't do breaking and entering. That was underworld.

    But honestly, the electric guitar based sound of cosmopolis: I haven't heard the Martinez score that sounds like this. It isn't traffic or Solaris or drive or contagion or narc - it sounds like there's an interesting Martinez score that I need to hear.

    Same with brion and zarvos and others. Enough generalisations. Lets have some titles. smile
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2012
    Clearly Williams is also over-rated since he will never again reach the heights of Star Wars Original Trilogy (and we all expect him to with every new score), and his recent scores like Lincoln are disappointing in comparison.

    cheesy
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2012 edited
    Demetris wrote
    But generally talking, apart his obvious LOTR style, there's very disappointing stuff like Doubt , the last mimzy, Panic Room and others; i've heard the old scores you mention and those are definitely not my style;


    A lot of Herrmann's music isn't my style but I'm NEVER going to claim that he is OVERRATED.

    Demetris wrote
    My point is that he won't reach the LOTR scores again, most probably, and the bar is always sitting up there with people expecting him to.


    I'm going to pass this one onto Scribe. Take it away Scribe!

    Scribe wrote
    Clearly Williams is also over-rated since he will never again reach the heights of Star Wars Original Trilogy (and we all expect him to with every new score), and his recent scores like Lincoln are disappointing in comparison.

    cheesy


    yeah

    Demetris wrote
    This is why i say he's overrated but once again, you took my point and took it to other extreme that suits your rants wink


    Suits my rants? What are you on exactly? Do you even know what the word overrated means?

    Demetris wrote
    Leave it there if you don't agree, i can't stress enough once again how i am not dissing him, i actually like him, but not to the point that most make him out to be; if you still want to assume the opposite of what i am saying, then please go ahead wink


    You said the following...

    Demetris wrote
    Generally tolkien (..), as years pass by i truly believe that Shore is overrated; with the exception of the very inspired LOTR scores.


    How else are we supposed to take a statement like that? Oh, Demetris said he's overrrated but that's not what he meant. dizzy

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2012 edited
    One nuance that can keep this discussion going when it's overlooked: 'Overrated' does not equal 'bad'.

    I think a lot of people judge him on the grounds of his LotR scores, because that's all they know of him. I get the feeling myself he is, as a composer, often not lauded by his full body of work and the composer he REALLY is. This generally goes when I hear comments like "ooohh, I LOVE Howard Shore, his music is sooo beautiful and EPIC". It puts me in the you-don't-get-it mode. I love his music and style, but I do get the feeling he's getting a bit bored or fed up lately. I love The Hobbit, I think its thrilling and it keeps growing on me, but I do think its not nearly as inspired or energetic as the original trilogy (yet?!).
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      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2012
    So... regular or special edition?

    I read some comments above, but perhaps some would like to explain again which one is the better listening experience. Did I understand correctly that the standard edition contains better versions of certain tracks?
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2012 edited
    Hi Bregje, if you're going for the best listening experience, you might want to check out the regular edition! In short:

    Regular edition:
    - Contains a more thrilling version of 'Roast Mutton' including an action oriented rendition of the Misty Mountain theme you hear several times in the film, but is missing from the special edition.
    - Also contains some other alternative moments, as mentioned above in this thread, but as opposed to Roast Mutton, these aren't necessarily better, just different (though I do prefer the more understated flute version of the Shire theme on the regular edition).

    Special edition:
    - Contains extended versions of tracks, but this totals less than 10 min. You're not likely to miss the extra bits of these tracks when you're listening to the regular edition. For example, the Misty Mountain song by Neil Finn merely has a very long outro tacked onto the end, but the song itself doesn't really feel much longer.
    - Most of the bonus tracks are obviously placed outside of the listening experience, with a gap of silence between the first bonus and the last track of the album and in-between the tracks themselves. As opposed to the track extentions, these tracks are new and fresh additions to the CD that you don't get on the regular one, but also somewhat short and do not flow as nice as the regular tracks, and as such are for me a 'listen once' affair.
    - Within the listening experience, it contains the 'Blunt the Knifes' song. I personally found this track, with all the sound effects of the scene, distracting from the overall listening experience and is too different from the rest of the created mood.
    - This release does contain a very nice and thick booklet with very interesting and extensive liner notes by Doug Adams about all the new and returning themes that is a very nice addition to the set. This is the main reason I'm happy with this set, ultimately.
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      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2012 edited
    Thank you very much! Exactly the kind of information I needed.
    I was convinced about the regular.... Untill you mentioned the extended booklet, but anyway...
    wink
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 26th 2012 edited
    Is there any sort of a chronological guide on what-piece-plays-where in the film for both the regular and the special edition of the HOBBIT score? Also, did someone write in a review / article how all those lotr themes (including the new hobbit score) are named?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeDec 26th 2012 edited
    On both editions are all tracks in their chronological film order, if present in the film. The booklet text of the special edition extensively names all themes, old and new and their relations.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2012
    I only have the digital watertower promo sent to the ifmca...does anyone have the booklet and can send me in pm the scanned pages with the themes' naming only?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2012
    Will do, soon.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2012
    Thanks Bob, deeply appreciated!
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2012 edited
    Here's my long review for THE HOBBIT: an unexpected journey, for anyone interested. No.10 in my top of 2012 countdown: http://demetrischristodoulides.com/2012 … rney-1010/
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  8. Goodness, that is long!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2012
    You can skip the selective track-to-track analysis smile
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.