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  1. Any news if his material will be on the Varese release?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Southall wrote
    A cynic might say that he's the ideal man to write replacement music because his stuff is so generic, it would blend in with anything.

    Are we talking about the man who wrote Cutthroat Island, Passion of the Christ, and Lair?
    Jesus Christ, some people really know how to avoid having fun, don´t they? rolleyes


    You forgot to add DRAGONFLY and of course THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST SYMPHONY.

    TOP STUFF! punk
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008
    sdtom wrote
    I can't hum one Debney theme from memory.
    Tom smile


    Come on, Tom! Seriously?! Not even the CutThroat Island theme. His theme from SeaQuest DSV.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008
    dgoldwas wrote
    Debney's portion of the MUMMY score was recorded here in LA., using Edelman's themes. It wasn't so much of a "replacement score" so much as it was a similar situation with Debney's involvement on LOONEY TUNES: BACK IN ACTION. At least, that's my understanding/interpretation.


    Wasn't Debney's involvement in Looney Tunes because Goldsmith was basically on his death bed and COULDN'T complete the score HIMSELF. Is Edelman dying? Or did he not have enough time to complete the score?

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008 edited
    Southall wrote
    Cutthroat Island is just Debney's impression of David Arnold's scores for Emmerich

    So Debney is a Time Lord now?! StarGate (the first Emmerich movie Arnold did) came out at the end of October `94, Cutthroat Island just one month later. You really want to tell me Debney watched StarGate and then just went home to write Cutthroat Island under the impression of David Arnold´s scores for Emmerich? rolleyes

    Passion of the Christ is just Last Temptation of Christ crossed with Gladiator

    Are you sure you actually listened to any of those three scores?

    Lair is mostly Star Wars prequel scores

    You know what, I wish it were, because that would mean we´d have gotten one hell of a batch of prequel scores... there is not one action track in the prequels that can match that final action cue from Lair. And yes, I include Duel of Fates and Clash of Heroes or whatever that thing is called.

    I'm just pointing out that his music is generic. Surely nobody can argue with that. There's nothing unique that John Debney brings to a film score that plenty of other film composers couldn't also bring.

    *shudder*
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008 edited
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Southall wrote
    Cutthroat Island is just Debney's impression of David Arnold's scores for Emmerich

    So Debney is a Time Lord now?! StarGate (the first Emmerich movie Arnold did) came out at the end of October `94, Cutthroat Island just one month later. You really want to tell me Debney watched StarGate and then just went home to write Cutthroat Island under the impression of David Arnold´s scores for Emmerich? rolleyes


    Well, Arnold did write demo material. Harlin didn't like Arnold's themes but maybe he liked the style. Anyway, I can hear a bit of Arnold's style in CutThroat but its more based on the works of the Golden Age masters and Debney's own sound then Arnold's. Yes, Debney's own sound. He does, at times, have one. Again, at this time his sound is very Williamsesque but you can hear some of what Debney's was starting to create for CutThroat in scores like SeaQuest and The Cape.

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Southall wrote
    Passion of the Christ is just Last Temptation of Christ crossed with Gladiator

    Are you sure you actually listened to any of those three scores?


    I'd have to agree... but it's still a spectacular score. BTW, don't forget the Horner's GLORY and Arnold's STARGATE theme that he used as well. wink

    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Southall wrote
    Lair is mostly Star Wars prequel scores

    You know what, I wish it were, because that would mean we´d have gotten one hell of a batch of prequel scores... there is not one action track in the prequels that can match that final action cue from Lair. And yes, I include Duel of Fates and Clash of Heroes or whatever that thing is called.


    Sure, you can improve on the sound but James is still pointing our that the blueprint... and in this case... the rips off come directly from Battle of the Heroes... and various other scores. Anyway, I love Lair even though it derivative as all hell.


    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Southall wrote
    I'm just pointing out that his music is generic. Surely nobody can argue with that. There's nothing unique that John Debney brings to a film score that plenty of other film composers couldn't also bring.

    *shudder*


    There is no doubt that Debney has skill and talent. but doesn't really go above and beyond like other composers do. And when he does... its a rare occurrence. But I like the sound that he uses. It's a throw back to the 80's symphonic sound that I liked. It might not be the most unique music in the world but it's enjoyable.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008
    Oh he goes. Rarely indeed, but he goes.

    DRAGONFLY, LAIR and 2 of film music's finest examples, imo:

    CUTTHROAT ISLAND
    PASSION OF THE CHRIST / SYMPHONY
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008 edited
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Southall wrote
    Cutthroat Island is just Debney's impression of David Arnold's scores for Emmerich

    So Debney is a Time Lord now?! StarGate (the first Emmerich movie Arnold did) came out at the end of October `94, Cutthroat Island just one month later. You really want to tell me Debney watched StarGate and then just went home to write Cutthroat Island under the impression of David Arnold´s scores for Emmerich? rolleyes


    Oops, my mistake! In that case I will say it stands alone in his filmography and ask why the hell he's never done anything as good since.


    Passion of the Christ is just Last Temptation of Christ crossed with Gladiator

    Are you sure you actually listened to any of those three scores?


    ??? Of course, otherwise I wouldn't know that POTC just lifts from them (and other things). As I keep saying - it's a great album! But let's not pretend it's anything original. It does show - for perhaps the only time in his career - that there's something really heartfelt there, something which goes beyond a slightly mechanical, technical accomplishment into a genuine emotional experience. Obviously I'm only talking about my reaction to his music and yours is clearly different, but all I can talk about is my own reactions!


    Lair is mostly Star Wars prequel scores

    You know what, I wish it were, because that would mean we´d have gotten one hell of a batch of prequel scores... there is not one action track in the prequels that can match that final action cue from Lair. And yes, I include Duel of Fates and Clash of Heroes or whatever that thing is called.


    Well, since Battle of the Heroes IS in Lair, and indeed forms the basis of large parts of it, that's a curious comment. There's nothing in Lair which is remotely as accomplished as the Star Wars prequels, much though that's what it's trying to be like (and was obviously temp-tracked with, if they have temp-tracks in computer games!)
    • CommentAuthorPanthera
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008
    I just hope the CD is willing to include music by both composers. I'd hate it if they ignored Debney's music, especially if he ends up writing something really good.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2008
    There's no Debney music on the CD, unless they've changed it after he was brought in.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2008
    While I really like Cutthroat Island I can't hum the theme confused I just completed my review of Meet Dave for maintitles. I'm sure Bregt will put it up shortly.
    Tom smile
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthordgoldwas
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    Wasn't Debney's involvement in Looney Tunes because Goldsmith was basically on his death bed and COULDN'T complete the score HIMSELF. Is Edelman dying? Or did he not have enough time to complete the score?


    I believe it was unforeseen circumstances that rendered Edelman unavailable. He is quite healthy!! (Isn't this how rumors get started?!)
    I consider a project a success when Thor says he won't buy it
  2. Research shows that Edelman recorded over 140mins of score; that's more than the length of the film. So I speculate that it's a lot of alternates that make up the rest, where Edelman couldn't get the action music to the liking of the studio (I'll also speculate the director liked his score) and so Debney came in after Edelman got his shot to redo.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
    •  
      CommentAuthordgoldwas
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2008
    justin boggan wrote
    so Debney came in after Edelman got his shot to redo.


    Edelman was not able to redo do to unforeseen circumstances - it's not like he got his shot, didn't succeed, and then Debney was called in. (At least, that's my understanding of the situation. Could be wrong!)
    I consider a project a success when Thor says he won't buy it
  3. Southall wrote
    There's no Debney music on the CD, unless they've changed it after he was brought in.


    I hope they do, because music of the film needs to be heard on the soundtrack, even if they replaced portions of it. I'm not saying it would be hard, but it is nessecary to give us the music what we hear in the film, if not you receive a Ernest Troost Tremors affair, where the entire music of Folk (quite staggering music I might say) was not on it, while Troost's music (which was rejected in parts) appeared in full.

    Please give us the score as heard in the film, and take the release date up a few weeks if you can't do it any way else
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2008 edited
    I'm with Tom on this. It's not always nice to have a bunch of rejected music on a CD, whereas what's used in the film goes unreleased. Being Debney though, I wouldn't be surprised if he releases a promo (take Spider-Man 3 for example).
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2008 edited
    Southall wrote
    Oops, my mistake! In that case I will say it stands alone in his filmography and ask why the hell he's never done anything as good since.

    I think he has (Passion of the Christ), it´s just different in style. But I would agree that Cutthroat is his massive orchestral masterpiece.

    ??? Of course, otherwise I wouldn't know that POTC just lifts from them (and other things). As I keep saying - it's a great album! But let's not pretend it's anything original. It does show - for perhaps the only time in his career - that there's something really heartfelt there, something which goes beyond a slightly mechanical, technical accomplishment into a genuine emotional experience. Obviously I'm only talking about my reaction to his music and yours is clearly different, but all I can talk about is my own reactions!

    Well, heartfelt is a massive understatement when I think about Mary goes to Jesus. That, Resurrection, Bearing the Cross, and Peter denies Jesus are (for me) emotional centerpieces of the score and so different from everything that Last Temptation of Christ or Gladiator have to offer. I love all three of them for very different reasons. I will admit that there is a lot of LToC and Gladiator in PotC, but only regarding to rhythm and instrumentation; they are all three quite ethnic at times, but I don´t count that as one lifting from the other. Sure as hell LToC was a big influence for the whole ethnic scoring thing, but PotC has MUCH more to offer than that.

    Well, since Battle of the Heroes IS in Lair, and indeed forms the basis of large parts of it, that's a curious comment. There's nothing in Lair which is remotely as accomplished as the Star Wars prequels, much though that's what it's trying to be like (and was obviously temp-tracked with, if they have temp-tracks in computer games!)

    Lair has more fun and golden tracks on one album than Williams created for all three prequels combined. IMHO, of course. Yeah, the prequel scores are great stuff, but I rarely put them in, and if i do, I tend to skip forward very soon, listening to certain tracks only. That never happens with Lair. Or with the scores for the classic trilogy, BTW. I think Williams took himself too seriously while he wrote the prequels. He forgot to have fun and henceforth didn´t compose it. And Lucas had the very same problem.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2008 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    I can hear a bit of Arnold's style in CutThroat but its more based on the works of the Golden Age masters and Debney's own sound then Arnold's. Yes, Debney's own sound. He does, at times, have one. Again, at this time his sound is very Williamsesque but you can hear some of what Debney's was starting to create for CutThroat in scores like SeaQuest and The Cape.

    I totally agree here. I think Debney wanted to create the ultimate Golden Age pirating score homage, and I think he succeeded.

    BTW, don't forget the Horner's GLORY and Arnold's STARGATE theme that he used as well.

    I know what you mean about that Stargate thing, but where the hell is Glory in it? I´m really curious. shocked

    Sure, you can improve on the sound but James is still pointing our that the blueprint... and in this case... the rips off come directly from Battle of the Heroes... and various other scores. Anyway, I love Lair even though it derivative as all hell.

    I agree that Lair is far from original. I consider this to be an inside joke by Debney, since the lift-offs are obvious as hell. But then again that´s what makes the score so much fun. He stole the best from the best and combined it into one album, as if he wanted to say, there you go, have fun!!! i tend to chuckle a lot while listening to Lair, while the prequels just... sound good. They almost never hit an emotional spot in me; there are just one or two tracks in Episode 3 which make me feel anything at all, and one of them is a direct Gladiator lift off. Who would have expected that from a Williams score? I certainly didn´t.

    But I like the sound that he uses. It's a throw back to the 80's symphonic sound that I liked. It might not be the most unique music in the world but it's enjoyable.

    I´ll sign that immediately.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2008
    Ralph Kruhm wrote

    BTW, don't forget the Horner's GLORY and Arnold's STARGATE theme that he used as well.

    I know what you mean about that Stargate thing, but where the hell is Glory in it? I´m really curious. shocked


    It's more of a Vaughan Williams tune, whereas Arnold's theme is more of a Lawrence of Arabia piece. It's in 'Burning The Town Of Darien' if I recall correctly.

    I don't think Arnold was 'inspired' by Vaughan Williams so much in Stargate, I think it's more of a riff on Jarre's style/theme from Lawrence Of Arabia. Plus it's quite a well-used musical phrase, it's bound to crop up in scores from time to time. It's just that Arnold uses it as a predominant (and fantastic) main theme.

    Horner revisits the Vaughan Williams tune in Troy too to good effect, which does admittedly sound more like Stargate this time around.

    It's all good bro... cool smile
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2008 edited
    Actually, those two very distinct chords that make up these themes are used a lot in the Bond scores. It's hard to describe as I am sorely lacking in musical terminology, I would need a piano to explain what I mean. (At this point you're probably thinking I'm nuts. More so than usual.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    Update from his agency:

    "in September you will be able to hear his musical talents in Liongate's "My Best Friend's Girl" starring Kate Hudson and Dane Cook."
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    They make out as though it's a particularly novel thing we're getting a new score from Debney!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    Steven wrote
    They make out as though it's a particularly novel thing we're getting a new score from Debney!


    Innit! rolleyes

    Debney seems stuck scoring hideous dross but I suppose it puts food on the table!?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    Steven wrote
    They make out as though it's a particularly novel thing we're getting a new score from Debney!

    ....and for a comedy (another one by Debney rolleyes : either he composes them while sleeping, or he REALLY likes this kinda films).
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    •  
      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    They make out as though it's a particularly novel thing we're getting a new score from Debney!


    Debney seems stuck scoring hideous dross but I suppose it puts food on the table!?

    Or this one wink
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    They make out as though it's a particularly novel thing we're getting a new score from Debney!


    Innit! rolleyes

    Debney seems stuck scoring hideous dross but I suppose it puts food on the table!?


    I'm sure Debney could more than survive on the money he's made already... which begs the question, why be such a composing whore when you have the talent to actually do greater things? I just don't get Debney. Why is it someone with so much talent continually scores garbage? Does he really like putting his talents to such use? I know "arteests" can suffer from too much pretense and pride, but Debney doesn't have enough of it! dizzy
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    Steven wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    They make out as though it's a particularly novel thing we're getting a new score from Debney!


    Innit! rolleyes

    Debney seems stuck scoring hideous dross but I suppose it puts food on the table!?


    I'm sure Debney could more than survive on the money he's made already... which begs the question, why be such a composing whore when you have the talent to actually do greater things? I just don't get Debney. Why is it someone with so much talent continually scores garbage? Does he really like putting his talents to such use? I know "arteests" can suffer from too much pretense and pride, but Debney doesn't have enough of it! dizzy


    Maybe these types of films are all he is being offered and since film composing is what he does for a living he takes what he can get. And maybe he truly loves to work on thoaw loq grade romantic comedies. Maybe one of the producers is a friend of his who he has worked with countless times. Who knows... but he has a job to do and maybe being selective isn't an option for Debney.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    Steven wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    They make out as though it's a particularly novel thing we're getting a new score from Debney!


    Innit! rolleyes

    Debney seems stuck scoring hideous dross but I suppose it puts food on the table!?


    I'm sure Debney could more than survive on the money he's made already... which begs the question, why be such a composing whore when you have the talent to actually do greater things? I just don't get Debney. Why is it someone with so much talent continually scores garbage? Does he really like putting his talents to such use? I know "arteests" can suffer from too much pretense and pride, but Debney doesn't have enough of it! dizzy


    How are you so sure he "could more than survive on the money he's made already"? We don't know anything about his circumstances, his family life, how big his home(s?) are or whether he's spent all his cash on booze, drugs and fast women? Cash wise I'd bet he's an utter pauper compared with the likes of Barry, Williams & Zimmer et el.

    Unless you know something I don't? wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    If there's one thing I remember him saying in Spain, it's "It's REALLY EASY to write this kind of music". rolleyes

    Great...NOW DO SOMETHING MORE CHALLENGING! crazy
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    If there's one thing I remember him saying in Spain, it's "It's REALLY EASY to write this kind of music". rolleyes

    Indeed, I remember that one too biggrin
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you