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World events

Off Topic » World events (Posts 1621 to 1650 of 2484)

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  1. The above (or beyond) speculations do not represent my own view. I was merely reflecting on the concept of evolutionary ethics that is currently au vogue in the German discourse of ethics. It is also often supported by so called "new atheists".
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015 edited
    Martijn wrote
    Captain Future wrote
    You can get to the point where you regard morality as a mere by-product of evolution.

    But it isn't. It's a social construct.
    Something that proved useful for the survival of the species.

    But it isn't. Morality has no added value for (personal) survival.


    Your attempt to unweave the philosophical twaddle we just received was nothing short of heroic (getting a straight answer from philosophers on metaphysics is like getting blood from a stone, second only to theologians), but here we have room for disagreement. Morality surely is a product of evolution, it's easy to see how certain basic morals might have benefited 'the herd' and therefore yourself, where more complex morality -and by extension ethics- we adhere to today grew from those evolutionary traits and got modulated by society. (Unless that's pretty much what you mean and I'm confusing the points?)
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015
    I am not convinced. Any trait that developed to benefit the herd rather than the one (yielding long-term benefits even if the immediate effect may be detrimental to the self) is extremely basic: to do with procreation or gathering food.

    For such highly cognitive concepts as morality I cannot for the life of me fathom how this could be a direct result of evolution. In a pinch I would argue it is a by-product of our capacity for abstract thinking, reasoned causality and problem-solving...and these of course ARE directly part of our evolution.

    So no, you got me the first time: I think morality (and in extension ethics) are a wholly social construct. Through evolution we got to such a place where we are able to form these social bonds, and have the mental capability to come up with good structuring measures to govern and maintain these bonds.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015
    I do recall reading a hypothesis for where evolution would have favoured certain moral beliefs, but for the life of me I can't remember it!? (Which is largely what I'm basing the thought on, though also the logic of wanting to protect the herd through altruism.) Though you make a convincing case for the social aspect of it. It's a facinating thought.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015
    I feel we may have gone off topic a little.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2015
    I remember now, it was in The God Delusion. But Dawkins distills his argument in a speech given in Virginia in 2006:

    I think a sort of bedrock of it comes from our Darwinian heritage as a kind of misfiring byproduct of our Darwinian past when we lived in small villages, or small roving bands, which meant we were surrounded by close kin. And that, as you no doubt know, is one good prerequisite for the evolution of altruism under Darwinian rules. And also in those small villages or roving bands, we would have been surrounded by people whom we are likely to meet again and again throughout our life which provides the basis for the other main Darwinian reason to be moral or altruistic. That I think is the Darwinian origin, and I suspect that although we no longer live in small bands, the same rule of thumb, rules of thumb, which were honed in our Darwinian past, are playing themselves out in the alien conditions of modern urban society. The rule of thumb used to be 'be nice to everyone you meet because everyone you meet is likely to be either a cousin and/or somebody you're going to meet again and again and therefore in a position to reciprocate'.

    Darwinism doesn't forecast, doesn't suggest, that we should be all wise and do what is actually going to be best for our selfish genes, instead it says that it builds into our brains rules of thumb which worked in our ancestral past. That rule of thumb, 'be nice to everybody', is still in our brains. It is a lust, which is rather similar to sexual lust which is still in our brains, even though we may use contraception and are therefore not actually using copulation to reproduce. The same rule of thumb persists, and that is also true of the lust to be good, the lust to be nice. That I think is the Darwinian origin, but I think it has become modified and refined through culture, through civilisation, until it chose itself in the much more sophisticated and actually much more pleasant rules for being nice that we see today.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2015
    Yyyyyeahhhh, OK. If that is where you (and Dawkins wink ) are coming from, I don't disagree, if only because the 'be nice to the herd' mentality is something you see all throughout nature.

    I guess a point could be made that the refinement to what we call morals is based on that...but to be honest I think Dawkins' point here was much more to counter any exclusively religious claim to morality, and to be able to show an evolutionary basis that may have led to ethics as we understand them.

    But our (yours and mine) points are pretty close: we got some "tooling"(or coping mechanisms) through evolution that have enabled us to come up with the concept of morality and ethical codes, because it made sense. Not because someone in the skies handed down universal truth (ebven if several of the Ten Commandments make excellent sense wink ).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2015
    Steven wrote
    I feel we may have gone off topic a little.


    shocked Unfathomable!
    I shall adjust the thread's title to accomodate our discussion anon!
    Oh, and FYI: we have ALWAYS been at war with Eurasia.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2015
    Martijn wrote
    But our (yours and mine) points are pretty close


    I was a being a trite pernickety admittedly. I suppose I could have used the same argument for science and technology (everything we do has at least some basis in evolution!). Anyway, I suppose the point is: morality is not that hard to explain (and doesn't demand any 'non-material' explanation).
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2015
    Steven wrote
    I was a being a trite pernickety admittedly.


    Well, the dev...critical rationalist is in the details. wink
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  11. There are too many planes crashes lately... RIP to all involved. sad
    www.synchrotones.wordpress.com | www.synchrotones.co.uk | @Synchrotones | facebook | soundcloud | youtube
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2015
    Is THIS for real?

    Laugh or cry, both are valid in context.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2015
    Why has this man not died a long, painful, horrific death yet?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  14. Because the people who could give him that may not know who that Zimbabwe fellow is?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2015
    They know.
    And they have a very strong economic interest in Africa.

    Yeah, if ever still proof was needed that the Universe isn't fair, this twisted, evil man is it.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2015
    My thoughts and best wishes go to all those involved in the terrible events in Paris right now. Geez! slant sad
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  17. It's just awful. Who would have ever expected such a thing in the City of Lights?
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2015
    It was predicted, but not preventable. The mix of Syria retournées, long-smouldering disenchantment in the banlieus and the analogously increasing Islamic extremism was one that lead every terrorism expert to emphasise 'when' rather than 'if'. This -a multiple, synchronous- attack was the worst case scenario.

    I had planned to spend Christmas in Vienna, but I'm going to try my very best and change that to Paris, because FUCK YOU, you pieces of pigshit! You think we'll let you influence how we live, love and celebrate life? You think killing us will change ANYTHING in our lives but our increasingly justified disgust with your 'religion' of 'peace'? I will sit in the open in a bistro at the boulevard Saint-Michel, and I'll toast a glass of champagne to your pathetic, futile attempts and your sad, hate-filled, luckily all too brief lives.
    Fuck you.
    From the bottom of my heart: FUCK. YOU.

    https://instagram.com/p/-C-NNrHZXh/
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2015
    yeah

    Praying for Paris is like applying pastoral care to victims of child abuse: it's meant with the best of intentions, but please, keep it to yourself. Humanism and secularism is what's needed. Also the complete annihilation of these thugs.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2015
    In other, better news it would seem likely that head chopping dead-eyed pond scum Mohammed Emwazi El-Shitbag has been vaporised in a US drone strike.

    Better known in the media as Jihadi John, a heinous insult to the late John Lennon.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  21. Wrong thread but NP: Imagine
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2015 edited
    There are actually no words to describe those who organised and commited this act. There is no superlative that I can think of.

    But still, fuck you.
  23. We were in Disneyland Paris that morning (well one of the hotels). It was surreal to wake up and realize it happened just couple of km from you. Everyone in the hotel was just stunned. Considering the park closed that day, and you never knew if something else was still about to happen, we turned home as quickly as possible.

    Tragic and unbelievably sad news sad
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2015 edited
    Terrible indeed!

    Hoping that nothing comes out of the supposed terrorist attack on the gorgeous city of Brussels, btw! Stay safe, my good Belgian friends.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2015
    I'm allowed to work at the office today, instead of the client in Brussels. I hope the level is lowered again soon but that doesn't stop be the feeling of fear many have.

    I don't like this atmosphere at all. I guess it's not as bad as it looks like if you live in Brussels (a friend says), but from outside it looks like a lockdown. I hope they get this mad man soon.
    Kazoo
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2015
    We can really only wonder what good this lockdown brought.
    It would be very interesting to see a future analysis of these days. But that'll porbably be a few years off yet.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2015 edited
    Yeah.

    However, the past weekend 200.000 cat pictures were posted with the hastag #BrusselsLockDown on Twitter because the police asked not to mention anything on Social Media. So to blur the news about the lockdown, people started posting cats...
    Kazoo
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2015
    All to the benefit of the One True Religion.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2015
    It was all over my social media feeds after he said it a few days ago - I liked Andrew Neil's message for IS.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34877683
    http://www.movie-wave.net | http://facebook.com/moviewave
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2015
    I loved it.

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