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  1. Erik Woods wrote
    Southall wrote
    I even love AOTC... the love theme, the Chase Through Coruscant music, the first appearance of the Imperial March.


    I'll give you the first two but The Imperial March was all wrong. Completely and utterly wrong!

    Anyway, besides the concert version of the love theme and the first chase... what else does the score deliver? Nothing.

    -Erik-


    Actually I tend to prefer Jango's Escape over Zam the Assassin. But that's just me (I love that ostinato)
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  2. IMHO, Episode 2 is only an average score. Tracks like Jango's Escape are generic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
    Anthony wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    besides the concert version of the love theme and the first chase... what else does the score deliver? Nothing.


    Completely agree. smile wink


    Thanks.

    The middle portions of the album bores me to tears. It's Williams just noodling around with the orchestra without saying anything. What's great about the original trilogy is the that every single NOTE has a purpose. I find that once we are finished with the Courescant chase the rest of the score is sonic wallpaper. The goofy versions of the love theme (and that love theme cut off as Anakin and Padme first kiss is fooking weak) and the action material is sub par. I do like moments of the Jango/Obi-Won fight but the Asteroid Field chase is one of the lifeless action cues of Williams career. And Duel of the Fates and the Trade Federation March have no business being in this score whatsoever. It's a snoozer of a score.

    Now, The Arena cue and the last statement of the love theme before the end credits are pretty darn good but still not enough to save this disappointing effort. But then again, ATOC a God awful film and I'm sure if Williams had his choice he would have dropped most of the bullshit he wrote for the middle portions of the film to score the lengthy and impressive Clone War battle at the end of the picture which for some idiotic reason doesn't have any NEW music.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
    Duel Of The Fates was in AOTC too?! sleep

    Edit: Oh yeah, when Anakin is on that speeder bike thingy?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    Duel Of The Fates was in AOTC too?! sleep

    Edit: Oh yeah, when Anakin is on that speeder bike thingy?


    You don't like Duel Of The Fates? You really are mad. I mean that.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    Duel Of The Fates was in AOTC too?! sleep

    Edit: Oh yeah, when Anakin is on that speeder bike thingy?


    Yup. They should have just put it on the shelf after The Phantom Menace and never referenced it again.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    Anthony wrote
    Duel Of The Fates was in AOTC too?! sleep

    Edit: Oh yeah, when Anakin is on that speeder bike thingy?


    Yup. They should have just put it on the shelf after The Phantom Menace and never referenced it again.

    -Erik-


    When will they learn? rolleyes
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    John Williams is the new Hans Zimmer.





























    as far as the denser thread in maintitles' award goes
    biggrin
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  3. I got a 4CD of "Schindler's List". Just thought I'd interrupt the flow of the conversation.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    justin boggan wrote
    I got a 4CD of "Schindler's List". Just thought I'd interrupt the flow of the conversation.


    Bah! You don't need 4 CD's of a the unedited recording sessions for Schindler's List. Zzzzzzz... sleep

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  4. Maybe I don't even need 1CD; still going to give it a listen.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    justin boggan wrote
    Maybe I don't even need 1CD; still going to give it a listen.


    You need the commercial release. That's all.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  5. Steven wrote
    Martijn wrote
    That is worrisome. I thoroughly dislike Williams' late 90s/early 00s style. slant


    shocked

    Are you mad??

    The truth can hurt sometimes!!

    His more recent scores are not a patch on his heyday period (mid-70s to mid-80s). I suppose there's a potential guide to how Indy 4 could sound - how different the original Star Wars trilogy was compared to the more recent efforts. I'd hope that Indy 4 would sound like the previous 3 - especially if the general style of the movie is like the original 3 movies.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  6. Looking at his style lately, chances are I'll probably never buy another Williams score ever again in my life. I only got 4CD monster because the guy wanted to trade and this was the only non-MP3 thing he had. IF it had been MP3, I'd have skipped it like every other Williams bootleg. He just doesn't draw my attention anymore.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
  7. Southall wrote
    I love the modern Williams. Did anyone seriously expect him to suddenly ditch 20 years of his own musical evolution and go back to writing in a style he abandoned? (Especially given that he didn't do it with the Star Wars prequels.)

    It's not really a case of "ditching" what he has done since then - I'm not sure he's been asked to go back and re-create what he did for previous projects.

    I would hope that the producers of Indy 4 want to re-create that feel found in the early movies. And in doing that, asking Williams to re-visit his previous style is part of that re-capturing. I remember reading Williams' comments in a recent Empire magazine when he said that it was very easy for him to recapture the Indiana Jones world when it came to composing for this new film.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  8. Timmer wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Southall wrote
    I'll take all three of them over Jedi, I think.


    Goodness no! Give me Jabba's theme, the Ewok's theme, Luke and Leia's theme, The Sail Barge Battle finale theme, Into the Trap, etc... hell the whole scores blows away anything and everything written for the prequels... with the exception of Duel of the Fates. Really, that's the only theme that rivals the original trilogy.

    As for you, Anthony... sounds old? Jesus! shocked I think you are being brainwashed by the some of the worst film music recordings of all time that have come out in the past ten years or so. There are exceptions but I want to read what you think are far superior recordings to Tomlinson's Raiders recording.

    -Erik-



    Totally agree with you on JEDI Erik, and lets not forget Williams sublime choral writing for the Emperor which is amongst the most sinisterly wicked ever written for film, and do I even have to mention the achingly brief but incredible choral for Luke and Vader's duel. cool

    The passages mentioned above are proof positive for Return of The Jedi as being justifiable inclusion to an awesome trilogy. Though Revenge of the Sith comes close to being in there too!!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  9. Erik Woods wrote
    I'll give you the first two but The Imperial March was all wrong. Completely and utterly wrong!

    I'm interested to know what you mean here, Erik?

    I'm not too keen on hearing The Imperial March on the prequels, purely because it jumbles up the musical continuity for the 6 films. To have the march feature in the first 3 movies and then be absent from Star Wars...and then to have that (first?) grand statement with Vader on the observation deck watching the fleet. dizzy
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    I'll give you the first two but The Imperial March was all wrong. Completely and utterly wrong!

    I'm interested to know what you mean here, Erik?

    I'm not too keen on hearing The Imperial March on the prequels, purely because it jumbles up the musical continuity for the 6 films. To have the march feature in the first 3 movies and then be absent from Star Wars...and then to have that (first?) grand statement with Vader on the observation deck watching the fleet. dizzy


    Let's throw the chronological aspect of these films out the door right now. When my little boy sees these films for the first time we will start with the classic trilogy starting with Star Wars and ending with Jedi. Then I will warn my boy the the prequel trilogy sucks... he will weight his options and if he so chooses I will show him the prequel trilogy last. This bullshit that Lucas intends on new audiences to see the films from Episode 1 to Episode 6 in order is ridiculous. What that does is completely ruins one of cinema greatest moments... "No, I am your father,"

    Ok, with that out of the way I would have used The Emperors theme... and I heard rumors that The Imperial March was a last minute recording as Williams had recorded something else to go underneath that sequence in ATOC. A glorified version of The Emperor's theme would have been spectacular because what is happen on screen is all his doing.

    "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design."

    Plus, we get some great close ups of the Palpatine himself with a little snicker. He is watching HIS army fly off. This has NOTHING to do with Darth Vader.

    Anyway, the reason I mentioned the chronological aspect earlier is that some might say "Well, putting The Emperor's theme over a shot of Palpatine ruins the surprise in ROTS when he is revealed as the Sith Lord." Bah! We all know that Palpatine and The Emperor are the same people so get over it!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    His more recent scores are not a patch on his heyday period (mid-70s to mid-80s).


    I'm inclined to think he's better now than he ever was. Or at least, just as good, but in a different way.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThomas
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    My theory is that he just needs to write much music in a very short time, so he simply can't just think several weeks about his concept (when to use which theme,...) anymore. John Williams doesn't get younger and the schedules are surely not less narrow than 20 years ago.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    it's not ditching to me.

    Isn't it because Williams wants to do something different too? Like Memoirs of a Geisha, where he said in an interview he had never done solos like that before.

    He constantly studies new techniques, does learn a lot, tries different things, I just think its natural.
    Kazoo
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    Southall wrote
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    His more recent scores are not a patch on his heyday period (mid-70s to mid-80s).


    I'm inclined to think he's better now than he ever was. Or at least, just as good, but in a different way.


    Ummm... no. That's stretching it. First of all, let me say that all of his stuff is miles ahead of anything written by any other composer during any time period. But his music in the past 10 years or so doesn't hold a candle to his absolutely brilliant work in the mid to late 70 and into the 80's. Yes, he is still in top form but the style change has meant that we are starting to see a side of Williams where he is beginning to sound the same. Lifting material from previous scores and inserting them into his new ones. That's the big thing that disappoints me about some of his more modern work. Did you hear ANY of that in his 70's and 80's work.

    But I will give props to a man who is 76 years old and really has no reason to change things up and experiment but does it anyway for his own creative kicks. So, I applaud that. I'm just finding that some of his stuff is starting to sound the same and that something you wouldn't find in his music 20 to 30 years ago.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    Ditching was the wrong word. He's just grown, matured, developed as a composer. You can't undo that however much you try (and I for one wouldn't want him to).
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    I'm just finding that some of his stuff is starting to sound the same and that something you wouldn't find in his music 20 to 30 years ago.



    Interesting. I find as much variety between Geisha, Munich, War of the Worlds and Revenge of the Sith (all written in the same year!) as any other four consecutive scores in his career - a lot more than most, actually.

    For whatever reason I just find it a lot easier to sit and listen to his modern scores than some - by no means all - of his "golden period" ones.
  10. Am I the only one who dislikes his scores for the 1970's disaster films?
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
    Southall wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    I'm just finding that some of his stuff is starting to sound the same and that something you wouldn't find in his music 20 to 30 years ago.



    Interesting. I find as much variety between Geisha, Munich, War of the Worlds and Revenge of the Sith (all written in the same year!) as any other four consecutive scores in his career - a lot more than most, actually.



    I think my wording was wrong. Yes, all four of those films all sound VERY different which is something I brought up a few years ago when discussing Williams 2005 output.

    Hummm... I'm trying to find the right words to describe what I'm getting at. I mean, there have been cues written by Williams that could be interchangeable in any other score written by Williams in the past 10 years. Does that make sense. I'm not even sure if that sounds right.

    I guess it's like hearing AOTC action music in the latest Indy IV samples. Would Williams have done that 20 or 30 years ago? Would he have lifted so heavily from The Lost World and inserted it into his Minority Report action music 20 to 30 years ago? Would he had shamelessly lifted passages from Far and Away and Saving Private Ryan in his "An American Journey" piece 20 or 30 years ago? I don't know if anything I've said is valid or understood but there is something about his modern music that just rubs me the wrong way... sometimes.

    I'm also turned off by some of his generic action music. Action music that use to be melodic. The Asteroid Field in Empire compared to The Asteroid Field in AOTC. One is now a most requested concert piece and the other is... well, there is rally nothing special about it whatsoever. Do you see what I'm getting at.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    I think I do understand what you're saying, yes. I see some truth in it too, though it doesn't really bother me very much.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    Antineutrino wrote
    Am I the only one who dislikes his scores for the 1970's disaster films?


    No
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    Action music that used to be melodic.


    That's the key phrase, right there.
    All this talk about "maturing" notwithstanding, the ONE thing people will ALWAYS come back for time and time again, is a proper melody. I don't care how clever the use of a diatonic triangle in asyncopated rhythmic developments is, I need a chord change I can follow and recognize.

    It's something that's sorely lacking in a lot of film music today (especially action music).

    I'm not bashing any composer trying to go for a more "developed" sound (though that's a label I would argue with), but the simple truth of the matter is that it's his melodic themes that will be remembered, and revisited in public memory.

    Certainly I will be one who will always return to that part of Williams (or any composer for that matter), as it has the strongest emotional effect on me (never mind how much I may appreciate -a different aspect- other sides of his compository skills).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  11. How much I love his recent action music sound, I must admit that I am getting more annoyed by the fact that his recent action music DOES start to sound the same and is very close to actually start ripping off Igor Stravinsky's dissonant style rather than referencing it, which is probably what I have against some of the AotC and even Revenge of the Sith action music. Lost World does belong to my favorite Williams scores and the second place for purely action score in the recent period would go for Minority Report which alongside AI I would call an underrated gem. Yes, the music is heavy, but for a Herrmannesque SF thriller based on difficult literary material and full of narcotic vision and pure darkness, I wouldn't expect anything else. I adore Pre-Crime to the Rescue, e.g.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website