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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    He's a good composer, but a lousy professional. He's fun to read but his ego is very at self-destructing levels at times.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    He's a good composer, but a lousy professional. He's fun to read but his ego is very at self-destructing levels at times.


    I couldn't disagree more. He obviously cares passionately about what he does, is willing to accommodate directors' wishes he knows are wrong - but present his own alternatives rather than just mindlessly caving in - sounds professional to me. It's so refreshing to see a film composer actually share his opinions about things rather than the tame crap all the other ones come out with. I don't get how his ego has been self-destructing, either. In what way has he destructed himself?
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Ugh. Composers who think they're directors are just as bad as directors who think they're composers.
    (Well. With the possible exception of John Carpenter)
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  1. I don't think he's a lousy professional. I think the whole TROY debacle shows he's the ultimate professional.
    And the great thing about the Schweiger interview is that he speaks his mind. While his opinion of Malick was a negative for me, that he was prepared to say it (as well as other things re: Wolfgang Peterson and Gabriel Yared) is truly rare candour. The likes of it has not been seen since the days of Bernard Herrmann and Lionel Newman!
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Ah!
    Another two of movie music's most diplomatic, cuddly and lovable individuals!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  2. I've heard of Bernie Herrmann, could somebody quote Lionel Newman? lol
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009 edited
    Michael and Southall, you're defending him 'cause you like his work, it's pretty natural. But cinema is such a multi-angled and complex venue, there's strict specialization that has to be followed in order for the whole processes to work. Everybody must mind their own business and whether some composers like it or not, the whole burden and responsibilities a director takes in such a high-profile venue as hollywood, are of such magnitude that he has the RIGHT to demand total control over the whole production, if the composer or all the other sub( OR 2ndary, whatever)-cast (it's like that whether we like it or not) wants to have a final say on the final product, the production will result into an endless, never-ending mess.

    MOST IMPORTANTLY though, in every business the most crucial aspect is to RESPECT YOUR COWORKERS and SUPERVISORS (i am sure he doesn't like to admit there's such a thing as a "supervisor" in cinema, but that's the truth like every other job) in PROFESSIONAL ways FIRST and foremost, before talking your mind or anything else, especially publically.

    As I said, it makes for a fun read for us and this perhaps why you like him, but the “cold” and typical-appearing other composers in their interviews clearly show more professionalism than what he does. Let’s face it, what one professional SHOULD do is be ok with his superiors and co-workers and then look how to satisfy fans with their sayings. And who said that someone who actually enjoys working with directors and shares their views, is lying?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  3. I concur with Demetris, actually. The way he was speaking of Malick showed him to completely misunderstand the medium he works in, too.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009 edited
    Perhaps Malick is overrated? We haven't heard his story. Perhaps his ego is as big as that of the length of his movies multiplied by the number of movies he made and the number of monologues in TTRL.
    Kazoo
  4. Malick is a philosophy professor who wants to get through with his metaphors. How come Zimmer had no problem with those with us regularly saying he dumbs down the movies he scores to the lowest common denominator and Horner says he's an idiot, because he didn't want scenes to be about emotions, but something else?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    I am not defending Mallick, just to clarify, i like TTRL a lot but overall i think he's overrated. In any case though, what i am discussing is a different topic.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    I meant more in a collaborative way. Not explaining exactly how one wants it, just getting a bit loose and ask things here and there, promising other stuff, ... I can imagine that is frustrating to no end, but well, previous composers survived. I don't know, but one can't only blame Horner.
    Kazoo
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Well, he does come across as arrogant generally. That might not be Mallick's problem. DOn't get me wrong, i love Horner's music. What we're discussing is different.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  5. Maybe Malick has problems expressing his ideas clearly, they are so abstract. I guess he just should send the classical pieces, tell composer what they meant to him and make him work around it?

    I don't know. I know for a fact that Zimmer's collaboration with Malick wasn't the easiest, but Zimmer keeps praising it and says it pushes him forward ("we fought in the corridors [of Media Ventures, where Malick set his production office] a lot, but these were good fights").
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    He's a good composer, but a lousy professional. He's fun to read but his ego is very at self-destructing levels at times.


    He can't self-destruct. He's James Horner. He can pretty much say whatever he wants and get away with it. And even if it should cost him some job offers, he could live off his TITANIC residuals untill he's 247 years old.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Maybe Malick has problems expressing his ideas clearly, they are so abstract. I guess he just should send the classical pieces, tell composer what they meant to him and make him work around it?

    I don't know. I know for a fact that Zimmer's collaboration with Malick wasn't the easiest, but Zimmer keeps praising it and says it pushes him forward ("we fought in the corridors [of Media Ventures, where Malick set his production office] a lot, but these were good fights").



    ........plus he delivered his best score in his career, 'cause of Mallick.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    Michael and Southall, you're defending him 'cause you like his work, it's pretty natural. But cinema is such a multi-angled and complex venue, there's strict specialization that has to be followed in order for the whole processes to work. Everybody must mind their own business and whether some composers like it or not, the whole burden and responsibilities a director takes in such a high-profile venue as hollywood, are of such magnitude that he has the RIGHT to demand total control over the whole production, if the composer or all the other sub( OR 2ndary, whatever)-cast (it's like that whether we like it or not) wants to have a final say on the final product, the production will result into an endless, never-ending mess.


    Which is EXACTLY what Horner is doing by saying that he does what the director asks him to do even when he knows the director is wrong, and tries to persuade him to do it another way - but always does what the director asks. Completely professional.

    I think it's absolutely scurrilous and beneath you to suggest that a composer of James Horner's stature and success is unprofessional. If he were unprofessional he simply wouldn't have got where he has. You can't do it if you're unprofessional.

    As for moaning about him speaking his mind and speaking the truth - I never have a problem with people telling the truth. If it's OK for me or you to come on this forum and slag Michael Bay off then I don't see why it's a problem for James Horner to do it - in a considerably more diplomatic way.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009 edited
    I'm also surprised that Demetris reacts to Horner's quotes that way, as he usually loves to laugh at various "Americanisms". I would think that Hollywood "schmooch talk" would be one of those, and that it would be a relief to see someone NOT degenerate into that.
    I am extremely serious.
  6. Weel, schmooch talk? Listen to Horner talking about colors!
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009 edited
    Southall wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Michael and Southall, you're defending him 'cause you like his work, it's pretty natural. But cinema is such a multi-angled and complex venue, there's strict specialization that has to be followed in order for the whole processes to work. Everybody must mind their own business and whether some composers like it or not, the whole burden and responsibilities a director takes in such a high-profile venue as hollywood, are of such magnitude that he has the RIGHT to demand total control over the whole production, if the composer or all the other sub( OR 2ndary, whatever)-cast (it's like that whether we like it or not) wants to have a final say on the final product, the production will result into an endless, never-ending mess.


    Which is EXACTLY what Horner is doing by saying that he does what the director asks him to do even when he knows the director is wrong, and tries to persuade him to do it another way - but always does what the director asks. Completely professional.

    I think it's absolutely scurrilous and beneath you to suggest that a composer of James Horner's stature and success is unprofessional. If he were unprofessional he simply wouldn't have got where he has. You can't do it if you're unprofessional.

    As for moaning about him speaking his mind and speaking the truth - I never have a problem with people telling the truth. If it's OK for me or you to come on this forum and slag Michael Bay off then I don't see why it's a problem for James Horner to do it - in a considerably more diplomatic way.


    Yeah, and then he goes and calls him an idiot. Maybe he should take the responsibilities he TOO has for the outcome? Blaming just 'the others' all the time isn't very pro either, especially at a movie where he seems to have missed the point.

    He's professional in the music he makes, but that alone doesn't make him a complete professional. Being a 'know-it-all' and call publically professionals like Mallick idiots and such adjectives isn't exactly what i have in mind as professional.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Thor wrote
    I'm also surprised that Demetris reacts to Horner's quotes that way, as he usually loves to laugh at various "Americanisms". I would think that Hollywood "schmooch talk" would be one of those, and that it would be a relief to see someone NOT degenerate into that.


    Americanisms and Hollywood-isms is what i do find disgusting in many behavioral types. But that alone doesn't mean that whoever who likes working with a director and enjoying his work is automatically a liar.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    Michael and Southall, you're defending him 'cause you like his work, it's pretty natural.


    That's a very presumptuous thing to say! (Though I can understand where you're coming from.)

    Personally, I don't really like the way he comes off in interviews... he lacks humility. But I really don't care, it's his music I care about!
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    Yeah, and then he goes and calls him an idiot. Maybe he should take the responsibilities he TOO has for the outcome? Blaming just 'the others' all the time isn't very pro either, especially at a movie where he seems to have missed the point.

    He's professional in the music he makes, but that alone doesn't make him a complete professional. Being a 'know-it-all' and call publically professionals like Mallick idiots and such adjectives isn't exactly what i have in mind as professional.


    Did he really call Malick an idiot?
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Steven wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Michael and Southall, you're defending him 'cause you like his work, it's pretty natural.


    That's a very presumptuous thing to say! (Though I can understand where you're coming from.)

    Personally, I don't really like the way he comes off in interviews... he lacks humility. But I really don't care, it's his music I care about!


    Besides, I wouldn't think Michael is one of his biggest fans.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Martijn wrote
    Ugh. Composers who think they're directors are just as bad as directors who think they're composers.
    (Well. With the possible exception of John Carpenter)


    I'd rather watch any film directed by James Horner than suffer through any score composed by John Carpenter, thank you.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009 edited
    Southall wrote
    Steven wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Michael and Southall, you're defending him 'cause you like his work, it's pretty natural.


    That's a very presumptuous thing to say! (Though I can understand where you're coming from.)

    Personally, I don't really like the way he comes off in interviews... he lacks humility. But I really don't care, it's his music I care about!


    Besides, I wouldn't think Michael is one of his biggest fans.


    Of course not. The man has no taste.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Steven wrote

    Personally, I don't really like the way he comes off in interviews... he lacks humility. But I really don't care, it's his music I care about!


    The best way to see things, actually. I too think he is one of the few remaining 'greats' of our times. As for what i said about James and Michael, whilst i know it came out wrong, or at least not exactly as i thought in my mind, still i am pretty sure that if we asked someone neutral, a third person who does not know HOrner nor Mallick, such comments like Horner's would surely make an odd impression. FOr us is different...it's OUR HOrner.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    Steven wrote

    Personally, I don't really like the way he comes off in interviews... he lacks humility. But I really don't care, it's his music I care about!


    The best way to see things, actually. I too think he is one of the few remaining 'greats' of our times. As for what i said about James and Michael, whilst i know it came out wrong, or at least not exactly as i thought in my mind, still i am pretty sure that if we asked someone neutral, a third person who does not know HOrner nor Mallick, such comments like Horner's would surely make an odd impression. FOr us is different...it's OUR HOrner.


    I dunno. I love some of Hans Zimmer's interviews too, but I detest what he's done to film music.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    Steven wrote

    Personally, I don't really like the way he comes off in interviews... he lacks humility. But I really don't care, it's his music I care about!


    The best way to see things, actually. I too think he is one of the few remaining 'greats' of our times. As for what i said about James and Michael, whilst i know it came out wrong, or at least not exactly as i thought in my mind, still i am pretty sure that if we asked someone neutral, a third person who does not know HOrner nor Mallick, such comments like Horner's would surely make an odd impression. FOr us is different...it's OUR HOrner.


    True. I'm willing to ignore his less-than-charming personality in favour of his music. Those who aren't fans of his music would probably be less forgiving (but probably more forgetful since they wouldn't care what he had to say in the first place!)
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2009
    Steven wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Steven wrote

    Personally, I don't really like the way he comes off in interviews... he lacks humility. But I really don't care, it's his music I care about!


    The best way to see things, actually. I too think he is one of the few remaining 'greats' of our times. As for what i said about James and Michael, whilst i know it came out wrong, or at least not exactly as i thought in my mind, still i am pretty sure that if we asked someone neutral, a third person who does not know HOrner nor Mallick, such comments like Horner's would surely make an odd impression. FOr us is different...it's OUR HOrner.


    True. I'm willing to ignore his less-than-charming personality in favour of his music. Those who aren't fans of his music would probably be less forgiving (but probably more forgetful since they wouldn't care what he had to say in the first place!)


    If you took someone who knows neither Horner nor Malick and showed them The New World and asked them if they thought Horner was right that it should have emphasised the love story, do you seriously think they would say no? There's a reason only twelve people saw that film. Personally - I love it - but Horner represents the majority. I absolutely, 100% disagree with Horner about Malick and The New World, but not many people would, and it's Horner's right to say it. He spent six months of his life working on a film and only saw ten minutes of his music left in it - you might want him to say "yeah, I really loved that, Terry's such a visionary director, it was a pleasure to put my heart and soul into the film for him and see the music thrown out" - but that would just make me think what a phoney he was.