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  1. Thor wrote
    The problem with McNeely, Talgorn, Shearmur, Broughton, McKenzie, Debney etc. is that they write wonderful, fan-friendly orchestral music, but they don't really have any striking musical personalities that immediately makes you go "yup, that's so-and-so". So I'm not sure if there's a high profile market for that anymore. You gotta be an Elfman, Horner, Williams or Goldenthal to really get through, at least in an "aesthetic" sense.


    Fortunately, God (forgive the non-secular attribution) made Gordon, Yared, Desplat, Iglesias, Rombi as the solution. Orchestral proficiency - indeed, mastery - with a 'sound'.
    Maybe Beltrami belongs on that borderline group of 'almost a sound'... mind you, he has some very distinctive scores to his pen, but they usually are the ones avoiding the orchestral sound.
    And Chris Young definitely has a sound, although he's often the imitator of another's (or his own)...
    A sound is not always welcome though. It hobbles Elfman, Horner, Giacchino - even Goldsmith, Rozsa and North! - as much as it helps to always be able to tell within a bar or two if they've written it. (Rarely does it hurt Goldenthal though - there's not enough for it to feel overdone.)
    I can generally tell when it's McKenzie though. He has a sound.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2010
    I could tell McNeely, McKenzie or Broughton within a couple of bars, but I take Thor's point.

    I have been enjoying David Hirschfelder's music for that owl film - so surprising to hear that sort of score these days. It's the very definition of what Thor's saying - but deeply enjoyably. The good thing about fan-friendly orchestral music is that it's fan-friendly.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2011
    INTRADA PRESENTS:

    SQUANTO
    Composed and Conducted by JOEL McNEELY
    INTRADA Special Collection Volume 179


    The latest Intrada release from the Walt Disney catalog features the premiere appearance of Joel McNeely's 1994 score for Squanto: A Warrior's Tale. The story's historical canvas features characters and scenarios that are painted with broad, forceful strokes: Squanto is unremittingly noble, Sir George is irredeemably loathsome, and Brother Daniel is unassailably virtuous. McNeely responds with powerful and direct emotional writing, propelling the drama forward through the energy of his music. This is especially apparent in the score’s dynamic action cues, and although his score is rooted solidly in Western orchestral tradition (the expected sound for big-screen family entertainment, at the time), McNeely weaves Native American flavor into the music through the use of traditional percussion and wood flutes, and by the occasional incorporation of pentatonic melodic lines. The result is a highly thematic, often soaring, emotional epic score which is seldom heard in film today.

    Squanto was the latest entry in a long line of Disney productions (both animated and live-action) to draw from the rich tapestry of American history and legend to bring popular folk heroes to life. Squanto represented another cinematic milestone: the first major studio production to tell the story of a historical Native American, portrayed by a Native American actor (Adam Beach, a member of the Saulteaux branch of the Ojibwa nation in Canada), and told almost exclusively from his point of view.

    This release is limited to 1500 units.

    INTRADA Special Collection Vol. 179
    Retail Price: $19.99
    AVAILABLE NOW
    For track listing and sound samples, please visit
    http://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.7218/.f

    ----

    Aaaaaaaaah... now THIS is film music. Just listen to those samples!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2011
    Very interesting. I hope this new partnership will eventually facilitate the release of his direct-to-video scores like Tinkerbell and Cinderella too.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2011
    Pleased with this release. Love his music in this vein.
  2. Never heard of this one and never seen it in a "holy grail" list from anyone. Should be around for ages! wink
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2011
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Never heard of this one and never seen it in a "holy grail" list from anyone. Should be around for ages! wink


    Good thinking Batman wink beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2011
    Want!!
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  3. purchased it in an instant! McNeely was during this era amazing
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2011
    He's still amazing, just not getting any projects besides Disney Direct to Video... sad
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2011 edited
    ... and they are great scores and thank goodness he is still working! At this point I could give a flying a fadoo what genre he is working in. Those direct to video Disney films give him an opportunity to write excellent music in his style without all of the hassle of a disrespectful producers and glorified idiotic music video directors! The biggest issue is getting the music released. Tinker Bell and the Great Fairy Escape was excellent!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  4. Scribe wrote
    He's still amazing, just not getting any projects besides Disney Direct to Video... sad


    indeed, one of those composers who beats 70 percent of the composers of today
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2011
    Thomas Glorieux wrote
    Scribe wrote
    He's still amazing, just not getting any projects besides Disney Direct to Video... sad


    indeed, one of those composers who beats 70 percent of the composers of today


    He's near the top of the list actually!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  5. Erik Woods wrote
    Thomas Glorieux wrote
    Scribe wrote
    He's still amazing, just not getting any projects besides Disney Direct to Video... sad


    indeed, one of those composers who beats 70 percent of the composers of today


    He's near the top of the list actually!

    -Erik-


    perhaps, but I still have high hopes for composers like David Newman, Bruce Broughton, Edward Shearmur, guys who aren't getting the attention anymore will come back with a vengeance. I hope Shearmur's Abduction amounts to something
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
    • CommentAuthorKevinSmith
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011
    Thor wrote
    The problem with McNeely, Talgorn, Shearmur, Broughton, McKenzie, Debney etc. is that they write wonderful, fan-friendly orchestral music, but they don't really have any striking musical personalities that immediately makes you go "yup, that's so-and-so". So I'm not sure if there's a high profile market for that anymore. You gotta be an Elfman, Horner, Williams or Goldenthal to really get through, at least in an "aesthetic" sense.


    Add to that the older generation of Holdridge and Folk too.
    Revenge is sweet... Revenge is best served cold... Revenge is ice cream.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011
    Erik Woods wrote
    Tinker Bell and the Great Fairy Escape was excellent!
    -Erik-


    Stop rubbing it in that you are the only film music fan in the world who has that score tongue
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    KevinSmith wrote
    The problem with McNeely, Talgorn, Shearmur, Broughton, McKenzie, Debney etc. is that they write wonderful, fan-friendly orchestral music, but they don't really have any striking musical personalities that immediately makes you go "yup, that's so-and-so".



    Apparently you don't listen to them much because McNeely, McKenzie, Debney and Broughton all have obvious musical personalities, so much so that when I'm playing random cues I recognize the composer before I even remember what score it is.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011
    Scribe wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Tinker Bell and the Great Fairy Escape was excellent!
    -Erik-


    Stop rubbing it in that you are the only film music fan in the world who has that score tongue


    I'm not the ONLY one.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    Scribe wrote
    KevinSmith wrote
    The problem with McNeely, Talgorn, Shearmur, Broughton, McKenzie, Debney etc. is that they write wonderful, fan-friendly orchestral music, but they don't really have any striking musical personalities that immediately makes you go "yup, that's so-and-so".



    Apparently you don't listen to them much because McNeely, McKenzie, Debney and Broughton all have obvious musical personalities, so much so that when I'm playing random cues I recognize the composer before I even remember what score it is.


    That could be because you're a big fan of them all, and have listened to them countless times. There may be some personalities in there, sure, but they're far too subtle and buried beneath what immediately sounds as a wish-wash of orchestral, conventional pastiche. The critical favourites in today's world have IMMEDIATELY recognizable personalities that even some non-film music savvy person could get, even if they didn't guess the name as such.

    Don't get me wrong...I love the work of many of those composers myself (esp. McNeely), but I don't fool myself. I know what it is I'm listening to. I can perfectly understand why they aren't more sought-after in more artistically ambitious films.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    Thor wrote
    I can perfectly understand why they aren't more sought-after in more artistically ambitious films.


    I honestly have no idea what you mean by this.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    Scribe wrote
    Thor wrote
    I can perfectly understand why they aren't more sought-after in more artistically ambitious films.


    I honestly have no idea what you mean by this.


    I guess I'm trying to say that you need to have a more immediately recognizable sound if you want to be picked up by the big artistic guys -- and you also need to be less conventional. Unless you want to a) be part of a "factory"-type sound like RC or b) you want to work on direct-to-DVD films or cheesy Hallmark TV productions for the rest of your career.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    Thor wrote
    Scribe wrote
    KevinSmith wrote
    The problem with McNeely, Talgorn, Shearmur, Broughton, McKenzie, Debney etc. is that they write wonderful, fan-friendly orchestral music, but they don't really have any striking musical personalities that immediately makes you go "yup, that's so-and-so".



    Apparently you don't listen to them much because McNeely, McKenzie, Debney and Broughton all have obvious musical personalities, so much so that when I'm playing random cues I recognize the composer before I even remember what score it is.


    That could be because you're a big fan of them all, and have listened to them countless times.


    That still doesn't mean that they don't have their own style.

    To the average movie goer everything sounds like John Williams anyway so it's up to us, the hard core film music fans (especially the critics) to dig deeper and find those unique traits that a film composer has... or doesn't have.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    Yeah, I highly doubt that the average movie goer is really going to notice the difference between a Williams score and a Goldsmith and a Horner and a Zimmer. They may be subconsciously aware but they're certainly not going to choose which film they buy a ticket to based on who's composing the score, so I can't see that being the reason McNeely and McKenzie and Broughton don't get high profile projects.

    And yet, here's a thought...maybe its precisely because of their unique musical voices that McNeely and McKenzie are not getting projects. Look at Debney and Silvestri and Doyle, they're also in the same sort of sub-Williams category of style, but they're getting A-list projects every year seemingly. Why? Because they're willing to abandon key elements of their musical personality in order to satisfy the studio's desire for their scores to, for lack of a better description, "sound like Bourne/Batman/Pirates." McNeely and McKenzie have never made that compromise, they've always stuck to their unique voice...and look where it's gotten them. Debney and Silvestri and Doyle are making loads of money writing generic stuff like Iron Man 2 and Captain America and Thor, while McNeely and McKenzie are making, presumably, comparatively little money writing beautiful gems like Tinkerbell and El Gran Milagro.

    It would seem that sometimes, "real" art is still not appreciated until after its time.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    • CommentAuthorKevinSmith
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    Scribe wrote
    Yeah, I highly doubt that the average movie goer is really going to notice the difference between a Williams score and a Goldsmith and a Horner and a Zimmer. They may be subconsciously aware but they're certainly not going to choose which film they buy a ticket to based on who's composing the score, so I can't see that being the reason McNeely and McKenzie and Broughton don't get high profile projects.

    And yet, here's a thought...maybe its precisely because of their unique musical voices that McNeely and McKenzie are not getting projects. Look at Debney and Silvestri and Doyle, they're also in the same sort of sub-Williams category of style, but they're getting A-list projects every year seemingly. Why? Because they're willing to abandon key elements of their musical personality in order to satisfy the studio's desire for their scores to, for lack of a better description, "sound like Bourne/Batman/Pirates." McNeely and McKenzie have never made that compromise, they've always stuck to their unique voice...and look where it's gotten them. Debney and Silvestri and Doyle are making loads of money writing generic stuff like Iron Man 2 and Captain America and Thor, while McNeely and McKenzie are making, presumably, comparatively little money writing beautiful gems like Tinkerbell and El Gran Milagro.

    It would seem that sometimes, "real" art is still not appreciated until after its time.


    Or they just didn't have the contacts to begin with. Being an orchestrator on some big film projects does not mean you are in the groove with the big name directors/producers. McNeely only got Shadows of the Empire after John Williams recommended him.
    Revenge is sweet... Revenge is best served cold... Revenge is ice cream.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011
    KevinSmith wrote
    Or they just didn't have the contacts to begin with. Being an orchestrator on some big film projects does not mean you are in the groove with the big name directors/producers. McNeely only got Shadows of the Empire after John Williams recommended him.


    I think there is much more to it then a simple recommendation from Williams (BTW, isn't that just a rumor? Has anyone said for certain that Williams did make the recommendation?) In fact, McNeely had worked closely with Lucas, Townson and Varese on The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles and McNeely scored the Lucas produced Radioland Murders. Maybe that's how he got the project.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    Scribe wrote
    Yeah, I highly doubt that the average movie goer is really going to notice the difference between a Williams score and a Goldsmith and a Horner and a Zimmer. They may be subconsciously aware but they're certainly not going to choose which film they buy a ticket to based on who's composing the score, so I can't see that being the reason McNeely and McKenzie and Broughton don't get high profile projects.

    And yet, here's a thought...maybe its precisely because of their unique musical voices that McNeely and McKenzie are not getting projects. Look at Debney and Silvestri and Doyle, they're also in the same sort of sub-Williams category of style, but they're getting A-list projects every year seemingly. Why? Because they're willing to abandon key elements of their musical personality in order to satisfy the studio's desire for their scores to, for lack of a better description, "sound like Bourne/Batman/Pirates." McNeely and McKenzie have never made that compromise, they've always stuck to their unique voice...and look where it's gotten them. Debney and Silvestri and Doyle are making loads of money writing generic stuff like Iron Man 2 and Captain America and Thor, while McNeely and McKenzie are making, presumably, comparatively little money writing beautiful gems like Tinkerbell and El Gran Milagro.

    It would seem that sometimes, "real" art is still not appreciated until after its time.


    Well, I strongly disagree with your assessment. No one is debating these guys' compositional chops within their style (which are undisputed) or that their music is often lovely to listen to. But it's a fact that their musical voice is fairly hard to grasp, unless you know their work quite intimately. It comes off as conventional orchestral pastiche, even to the seasoned film music fan. Which can be fun in itself, but is quite unsuited for film artists who want a more pronounced identity and particular approach.

    You don't hire McNeely if you want Clint Mansell.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011 edited
    Thor wrote
    You don't hire McNeely if you want Clint Mansell.


    No... you hired Clint Mansell if you want Nicholas Dodd to sound like a David Arnold Bond score. tongue

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2011
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    You don't hire McNeely if you want Clint Mansell.


    No... you hired Clint Mansell if you want Nicholas Dodd to sound like a David Arnold Bond score. tongue

    -Erik-


    Win! biggrin
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2011
    I'm having my first listen to Squanto and it is really repetitive. It's a pleasant theme which I really like.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2011
    Talk about stupid. It was quite repetitive because the file just played the same track over and over again. It helps to tell the player to play all.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!