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    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008 edited
    Anthony wrote
    Quite frankly, I never want Powell to write anything like The Da Vinci Code. Leave that type of music to Zimmer, and leave Powell to his own devices (although he really does need to do something new).


    Da Vinci Code is a pleasant listen, a very 'new agey' sounding album but this film would have been far better served by John Barry or Wojchiech Kilar, both of whom could have put some meat onto the flimsy bones of this film.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  1. Anthony wrote
    Incorrect. You sent me a Harry Gregson Williams demo, and a Harry Gregson Williams live recording. They both sounded like synths.

    It was a Rabin track...


    And EVERYBODY I showed this told me "Wow I can't believe the synth version is in the OST"...


    Except you...




    A truely orchestral fan like you, I'm so disappointed... vomit





    And hey, Ant, can you explain what the Media Ventures sound is ? Technically ? Synths ? Heavy brass ? Maybe guitars ?
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008
    It's specific synth samples that pop up everywhere. For example, there's RC synths, and Sean Callery synths. Both sound totally different.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008
    Southall wrote
    Marselus wrote
    Anthony wrote
    And Gladiator, Hannibal and Pirates aren't the only Zimmer scores people can name?

    Maybe, but with 30 years less of career wink


    I wanted to refrain from this thread any more since I've said all I can... but you really, truly, honestly think that anyone in the world apart from the few people on messageboards like this one would know that HAns Zimmer wrote the music for Hannibal, but would not know that John Williams wrote the music for ET?


    They would know he wrote Gladiator. Parallel example.

    And most of you who are talking about how people know and whistle John Williams tunes out of memory, would be surprised if you actually didn't talk about people you know and who are directly or indirectly linked with you or film music and cinema but actually walked out on the streets and asked passing people who John Williams is, if they know him and if they can whistle a tune by him out of memory.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  2. To Justin. Zimmer got Walker a job. He is co-credited, because of contractual obligation (Walker's words), but he DID get Shirley Walker a job.



    Sssssooo? She got work before, during, and after that.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
  3. And also, she was very warm when recalling their collaboration and seemed rather grateful for Chicago Joe and the Showgirl. I guess orchestrating for Zimmer and Elfman got her a lot.

    Truthfully, orchestrating Batman was the big thing, though Backdraft had its share of commercial success.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008
    Current state of film music; see this!

    http://www.maintitles.net/forum/discuss … ds/#Item_3
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    Southall wrote
    Marselus wrote
    Anthony wrote
    And Gladiator, Hannibal and Pirates aren't the only Zimmer scores people can name?

    Maybe, but with 30 years less of career wink


    I wanted to refrain from this thread any more since I've said all I can... but you really, truly, honestly think that anyone in the world apart from the few people on messageboards like this one would know that HAns Zimmer wrote the music for Hannibal, but would not know that John Williams wrote the music for ET?


    They would know he wrote Gladiator. Parallel example.

    And most of you who are talking about how people know and whistle John Williams tunes out of memory, would be surprised if you actually didn't talk about people you know and who are directly or indirectly linked with you or film music and cinema but actually walked out on the streets and asked passing people who John Williams is, if they know him and if they can whistle a tune by him out of memory.


    And they would all whistle something from Star Wars. We win!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2008 edited
    Oh for cryin' out loud, I can't believe the ol' Zimmer debate is up and running again!! Next thing you know, it will be joined by its other geriatric dead horse topics "The Horner Plagiarism debate", the "Williams vs. Goldsmith" and the "everything used to be so much better back in the day". Even Viagra can't help them!

    For the record, I agree completely with everything Demetris has said in this thread.

    So what would I like to see less of in film music?

    Well, mostly dead horse topics like the above, speculation threads (more relevant over at FSM than here, perhaps), lists, nit-pick complaining, spoiled attitudes, talk about superficial matters AROUND the music itself....and more.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2008 edited
    Timmer wrote
    Antineutrino wrote
    Choirs...

    ...especially when used without a lot skill by the composer


    Spot on Stefan, that's one of my biggest beefs about modern film scores, I could imagine that if a film(s) like ALIEN or ALIENS were made now they'd be full of choral work, oh, and the former would be scored by Hans Zimmer.

    I love the use of choir in scores when it's done correctly, there was a time when hearing a choir in a film score was rare enough to be considered a luxurious TREAT and not used to cover up some sorry assed composers sad ass attempt at writing music.



    So what do people here think about the (over?)use of choirs in film scores?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2008
    I think it's overused.
  4. Steven wrote
    I think it's overused.


    Oh, geez. And orchestra is overused, but I don't hear anyone complaining about that.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
  5. Justin, listen to King Arthur and you'll say it's overused biggrin
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2008 edited
    Thor wrote
    Oh for cryin' out loud, I can't believe the ol' Zimmer debate is up and running again!! Next thing you know, it will be joined by its other geriatric dead horse topics "The Horner Plagiarism debate", the "Williams vs. Goldsmith" and the "everything used to be so much better back in the day". Even Viagra can't help them!

    For the record, I agree completely with everything Demetris has said in this thread.

    So what would I like to see less of in film music?

    Well, mostly dead horse topics like the above, speculation threads (more relevant over at FSM than here, perhaps), lists, nit-pick complaining, spoiled attitudes, talk about superficial matters AROUND the music itself....and more.


    Yet you're are the one that continues to bring up the tired and dead horse beaten complete and chronological debate.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2008
    Thor wrote
    Oh for cryin' out loud, I can't believe the ol' Zimmer debate is up and running again!! Next thing you know, it will be joined by its other geriatric dead horse topics "The Horner Plagiarism debate", the "Williams vs. Goldsmith" and the "everything used to be so much better back in the day". Even Viagra can't help them!

    For the record, I agree completely with everything Demetris has said in this thread.

    So what would I like to see less of in film music?

    Well, mostly dead horse topics like the above, speculation threads (more relevant over at FSM than here, perhaps), lists, nit-pick complaining, spoiled attitudes, talk about superficial matters AROUND the music itself....and more.


    Superficial? You call the destruction of the creative influence of the composer thanks to the production line model which is now favoured, "superficial"? I would love to know what you thought was important.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2008 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    Yet you're are the one that continues to bring up the tired and dead horse beaten complete and chronological debate.


    That's not really relevant. First of all, I only mention it in passing, whenever I'm talking of a newly released score (that I have a connection to) that comes in that format (hence when the criticism is relevant). Second, it's only a "pet subject" of mine (or a quirk, if you will), not some established topic that everyone in film music land raves on about over and over again, even thinking they're reinventing the wheel each time. Apples and oranges, in other words.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2008 edited
    Southall wrote
    Thor wrote
    Superficial? You call the destruction of the creative influence of the composer thanks to the production line model which is now favoured, "superficial"? I would love to know what you thought was important.


    No, the "superficial" comment was not aimed at this discussion (I couldnt' care less about the Zimmer debate). I mean topics related to the actual superficiality of the item itself - jewel cases, stickers, CD surfaces, whether it's mono or stereo, where the rights are, what the previous releases were, what labels they were on, how long the postal service takes to deliver it etc. Everything AROUND the music, in other words. I realize it's a legitimate topic among film score COLLECTORS, but it doesn't interest me.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2008
    Thor wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    Yet you're are the one that continues to bring up the tired and dead horse beaten complete and chronological debate.


    That's not really relevant. First of all, I only mention it in passing, whenever I'm talking of a newly released score (that I have a connection to) that comes in that format (hence when the criticism is relevant). Second, it's only a "pet subject" of mine (or a quirk, if you will), not some established topic that everyone in film music land raves on about over and over again, even thinking they're reinventing the wheel each time. Apples and oranges, in other words.


    Oh Thor... come on! Any chance you have to bring it up you do. It's not Apples and Oranges. It's another topic that you continue to bring up, just like others bring up the Zimmer bashing, and it's ooooooooooooh so tiring! sleep

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  6. Zimmer in 30 minutes chronilogical orders and is still a Zimmer that sucks. tongue
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2008 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    Oh Thor... come on! Any chance you have to bring it up you do. It's not Apples and Oranges. It's another topic that you continue to bring up, just like others bring up the Zimmer bashing, and it's ooooooooooooh so tiring! sleep


    Well, you're free to find it tiring, but it's still not the same thing. It's been a loooong time since I brought up that issue in general terms. I've only mentioned it if it's relevant to any given release and if it's a score I know somehow. It's only a passing comment. If the discussion takes off again after that, it's only because some people can't wrap their heads around the fact that someone listens to film music differently than they do; that my preference is somehow an "offense" to their own preference, and I'll have to answer to silly allegations. I find this defense as tiring as you do, but it's hard to avoid.

    In any case, one person's particular listening preference is not a "dead horse" topic. It's just part of who I am. The Horner, Zimmer, Goldsmith vs. Williams debates, on the other hand, are GENERAL topics that somehow refuse to die and that everyone seems to participate in; yet that don't really have any relevance or anything new to offer anymore.

    Yup, it is indeed apples and oranges (heh....I just got a hankerin' for fruit after all this talk!)
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2008
    I think Thor's right here. I don't agree with the specific views of his on the subject matter you're talking about either but why the hell he has to get fried each time he brings that up just because he's contrary to the general notion? I think his view must be respected, even if you and me and many others don't agree at all.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthormarkrayen
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2009 edited
    I agree 100% about wanting less use of cheap dramatic effects such as block voicing in choir vowals. Hopefully, this cliché will wear off soon.

    I would also like to see less isolation between composers and editors. Ideally, the composer (and music editor) should be working as closely with the film editor as the director usually does. The idea suggested by Curtis Hanson (from an interview) that a film should be perfectly shot and edited to "not need music" before the composer comes in and "improves" it, or in Hanson's words, adds the "icing on the cake" - is flawed. When that is the case, what is left for the music to contribute? It is very limiting for composers, who in these cases are not expected to contribute anything of their own, but merely underline ideas, characters, and other establishments already present in the film. In this case the music must constantly unfold simultaneously with other important sound and graphical content and is hence never offered any crucual significance or foreground role. Although acceptable results are possible if the composer is talented, this philosophy is simply discriminating, and I hope younger film makers today are recieving a competent education in the possibilities of film music at film schools.

    Actually, as much as I disagree with the Oscar success of Gustavo Santaolalla, in his films the music really does plays a vital part. I think his success is a tribute to good communication between composer/music editor and editor/director.

    Edited to say: I also agree with those defending Hans Zimmer. I personally don't like the extension of his influence on the art, but that is something he can't be held responsible for. He is actually very good at what he does. The executives calling the shots however, who base their criteria on commercialism before art - they are the real bad guys.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2009
    I don't find it tiring Thor. Talk about it all you want.
    listen to more classical music!