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- CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
There are others who do this in the video too, and their teacher / escort rocks! Hope we have 'em online soon here in maintitles.netLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
Music sounds really good!
It was interesting to see how some of the students watched the musicians and others concentrated on the monitors - much more interested in what the movie was like!The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeDec 13th 2007
Well, they were lucky to actually be there when recording Decimation Proclamation. Probably the best track.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentAuthorKrish4479
- CommentTimeDec 13th 2007 edited
Yes, Decimation Proclamation is the best along with Requiem Epilogue which reminds me a bit of Stargate.
The whole album is terrific and is the best gift we could ever receive from Tyler and the Strause bros.
:D -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeDec 17th 2007
Well, can't think of school kids being amazed by Coprocloakia if they weren't into film scores before.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeDec 18th 2007
Interview with Tyler and directors Greg and Colin Strause about AVP:R
http://www.filmmusicmag.com/radio/Brian … se-18.htmlKazoo -
- CommentAuthormsia2k75
- CommentTimeJan 4th 2008
Does anyone know what is the chronological track order for AvP:2 please?
I have seen one on filmtracks but the poster couldnt put track 11 and 15.
Thanks. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
First review of AVP: 2 in Poland.
Demetris, you SO don't want to read it
The guy is harsher than me.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Could you post the link? Or even better, could you post it already translated?Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Don't careLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
OK, roughly then:
"Cinema is going through a crisis recently. For some time filmmakers have suffered from a chronic lack of ideas. Because of this, we see desperate trials to revive past hits. As we see the effects aren't very good, not to say pathetic. What's even stranger, these blunders of a movie make big money. The crisis then is only qualitative, not financial. All that, because people still believe trademarks they know, counting on a nice surprise ('Maybe they will do it right!'). I helped the American crap-makers by spending my money on "Alien vs Predator: Requiem". I expected an enormously stupid violent slaughter with blood splattering over every shot. The film was shockingly accesible, though strangely boring, devoid of interesting action and good storyline. My rather low expectations were completely met by Brian Tyler's score.
The 'work' of the American composer is a typical case of a kitschy Hollywood by-the-numbers work worth the worst RCS (Remote Control Studios?) bastard child. Tyler created a generic, devoid of any emotions, heavily influenced by the works of his predecessors (sp.?), mostly referring to James Horner and Alan Silvestri. Original material we hear in traces and they form a little-representative aspect of a non-representative score. "AVP 2" is nothing more than a not really bright variation on Predator and Alien scores from the past.
This candidate for the musical equivalent of "Razzie" award starts with the piece Requiem, where the composer presents a banal theme based on the more-than-countably used rhythmic figure from "Mars: The Bringer of War" by Gustav Holst. We immediately start to doubt about the shape of this over 77 minute album. After listening to the next 5 tracks we already know the whole album. It has everything that the rest has - big orchestral noise with some calm stops. This was achieved by the standard effects for the genre. We have screaming and squealing trumpets, strongly accenting tubas, pulsating drums and timpani, screeching graters (sorry, had to go literal here), whirling and warbling strings, often performing sonoristic stunts. Of course, everything is presented in a marching style, showcased by the massive military snare. To cut it short, everything that we know from Aliens and Predator scores. The relatively small use of ethnic percussion is peculiar - it would definitely make the listening experience more diverse.
Brian Tyler definitely wanted his references to mentioned work to be a homage to the predecessors. It was probably supposed to nobilitate the score and show how erudite the composer is. He didn't manage to... The only track that gains big interest is... such track doesn't exist. I wonder if any track division makes any sense here, because they all are so similar. Subsequent tracks don't bring any kind of innovation, instrumental or illustrative. In twenty minutes one is already full of all the instrumental and illustrative overuses like strings going down (he means a glissando here), pounding snare and tubas, sounding as if the musicians were to puke. It's really tiresome. Tyler managed to do one thing though: He showed the character of Predator very well, because the cloaking between tracks is perfect. You can't differ one from another...
I must admit that I like to listen to good craft sometimes, to get deeply into its technical merits with pleasure. Then I take scores like Lost, War of the Worlds, Casino Royale or The Edge offering raw, but interestingly constructed action music. "AVP 2" doesn't warrant such interest, but really tires me. Getting through the wall of sound is quite an accomplishment and I congratulate anybody who manages to do it without any damage to their health. I had more than one crisis myself. It's nothing more than 77 minut of horrific noise. There are few calm tracks that drive away from the spectacular action material. We have the moving "Kelly Returns Home", mysterious "Special Delivery" or "Striptease" full of erotic tension. One word - "boredom" - is enough. The noise is more listenable.
Summary time: Brian Tyler wasted another chance to show what he's up to (unless, indeed he has nothing to show). He could really do much in arrangement and illustration. He preferred to, like in Constantine, take it easy. The music he wrote is utterly unoriginal, banal, chaotic, noisy and full of orchestral surfelt. Orchestra runs in an uncertain direction with enormous, unnecessary [energy? no word here], playing sinister sounds written by Tyler's hand. Harald Klosed did much better in the previous part. It makes one ask where does film music go today. Seemingly to become pure craft without any glimpse of higher emotions. Craft doing its job well, but artistically on a zero level. But I really managed to find one deep thing in Tyler's score. The title and kitchiness (sorry for the word) of the soundtrack correlates with the actual situation in film scoring. AVP 2 is indeed a perfect requiem for now forgotten and emotionally involved compositional techniques".
This is the review. I don't agree it's so bad and I don't agree it's worse than Kloser, but some points I made here on this board before. The question what has Tyler to show is quite often asked in Polish review community.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Kazoo -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
I don't disagree with that review (because almost every point is valid) but I don't agree with it either (because it's still a reasonably entertaining score for what it is) but what i CAN say definitely is THANK YOU Pawel for going to the trouble of translating it! You rock!I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
THis review is from LucasWayne's website and I apologize him for translating without asking for permission.
My opinion is not VERY far, but the man is harsh on Tyler as a composer here. Well, so am I, but I think he lost the concept of irony, where he stated that pieces are "moving", but on the other hand - boring. That would demand refinement.
Basically to me, except few overstatements (Striptease is for me one of the better tracks), the review is spot-on. I do like some of the employed sonoristic effects, but really, that's all I disagree with. Oh and I do love Decimation Proclamation, probably Tyler's best action piece to date. If it only had style, though.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Nobody has anything more to say? Marselus? Demetris?
Mr. Brian Tyler?http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
PawelStroinski wrote
Mr. Brian Tyler?
Imagine how brilliant it'd be if he actually responded to that
(so, Mr. Tyler, if you have anything to say over here, now is the time!) -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Wait 'till he reads my review firstLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
BobdH wrote
PawelStroinski wrote
Mr. Brian Tyler?
Imagine how brilliant it'd be if he actually responded to that
(so, Mr. Tyler, if you have anything to say over here, now is the time!)
I imagine the response would be
CAN ANYBODY GIVE ME MAIL ADDRESS TO THE F*CKER?http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
In fact i an assure you out of personal experience, it would be absolutely nothing like thatLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Christodoulides wrote
In fact i an assure you out of personal experience, it would be absolutely nothing like that
Why, have you had contact with him? -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Demetris interviewed Tyler one day.
Though there is one thing.
You can;t discuss one of the stuff written in the review.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
BobdH wrote
Christodoulides wrote
In fact i an assure you out of personal experience, it would be absolutely nothing like that
Why, have you had contact with him?
Yes.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Christodoulides wrote
BobdH wrote
Christodoulides wrote
In fact i an assure you out of personal experience, it would be absolutely nothing like that
Why, have you had contact with him?
Yes.
I see. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Demetris, I would really go completely mad if somebody told me that I have nothing to showcase in the genre, ESPECIALLY if I had quite a career in it. All depends on the way he accepts being criticized. And the guy goes very ad personam there, with asking basically who the f*ck is Brian Tyler at some point or at least stating that Tyler has completely no talent.
OK, Tyler in Poland is seen generally as a temp-track hack, based mostly on Greatest Game Ever Played, Annapolis. Children of Dune is his most respected work, though the Zimmer influences (and Goldsmith) are seen very strongly and rather criticized (Tyler basically does his own Gladiator there at times, you must see it). Timeline had a rather warm reception. I can say Frailty wasn't really respected on my website getting a 3 I think on the album and a 5 in film. Fast and Furious was just seen as a cool score, nothing else.
The reviewer's attitude is really interesting, I would say. His arguments, interestingly technical - he must have dealt with music before, not many people would use the word "sonoristic" I guess, really I've learnt it only 2 years ago and of course my musical knowledge is somehow around "what I get", so he is either a big fan of the avant-garde or had musical education. The biggest issue I have with Tyler's action, showcased perhaps mostly in AVP really is that he is loud for the *sole* purpose of being loud. I just hear some orchestral noise, a bit more melodic than usual (vide: Decimation Proclamation) featuring all possible influence (Zimmer to Horner to Silvestri to Goldsmith to Goldenthal to Goldsmith to Horner to Goldsmith again if memory serves me well, I will correct it). It's just somehow noise for brass and rather simple strings. OK, cool, but really meaningless. Then I see photos of the score Tyler gave on Facebook and I suddenly catch there are some time signature changes! That was quite a shock to me. Normally I do hear (Goldsmith, Zimmer in particular, Williams changes it so fast I have problems air-conducting his action music, so I don't really try), not here. Of course I *am* musically rather illiterate, though I plan doing something crazy on my level of development which would be trying to listen to The Rite of Springs along with the piece, but I think there is some fault to the scoring here. It all could be one track. Loud as f*ck it may be, but it's nothing else. It also shows in the performance, which lack the punch Goldsmith, Horner, Silvestri or Goldenthal have. It's by the numbers, espeically Goldenthal and Goldsmith are capable of sheer brutality, though in his string performances Goldenthal is capable (much more than straight brutal Goldsmith) of getting desperation.
I'd love to see you discussing with technical points made in the review, especially, yes, the originality problem. You tend to end it on a pretty general note. I'd love though to see some things I would notice if you precisely told me some stuff. I can get some musical language, often I need theory to see something in practice.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 6th 2008 edited
PawelStroinski wrote
The 'work' of the American composer is a typical case of a kitschy Hollywood by-the-numbers work worth the worst RCS (Remote Control Studios?) bastard child. Tyler created a generic, devoid of any emotions, heavily influenced by the works of his predecessors (sp.?), mostly referring to James Horner and Alan Silvestri. Original material we hear in traces and they form a little-representative aspect of a non-representative score. "AVP 2" is nothing more than a not really bright variation on Predator and Alien scores from the past.
A Remote Control bastard child? Hmmm....I´d challenge this reviewer to find a score (just one) from a RC guy that sounds (even remotely) as AVP:R. I really think there´s people out there really obsessed (or should I say sick?) with Zimmer and his studio (and this guy seems to be one of them).
Tyler creating a generic score? Hmmm...even if I don´t think it´s generic (not the most original neither), what was this reviewer expecting? Mahler´s resurrection to finish his 10th symphony or what? It´s Aliens (!!) Vs Predator (!!!) Part 2 (!!!!). Repeat: Aliens (monster) Vs Predator (monster) Part 2. So we have bad ass monsters fighting each other for second time: so we need non-stop-and-over-the-top-action from minute one ´til the last one.
Influenced by his predecessors? Of course, and I love it (as most do, as we´ve grown listening those themes / tunes in the movies in their respective sagas). And IMO Tyler does it brilliantly, not overusing those themes but using them here and there through the score.
PawelStroinski wrote
Brian Tyler definitely wanted his references to mentioned work to be a homage to the predecessors. It was probably supposed to nobilitate the score and show how erudite the composer is. He didn't manage to... The only track that gains big interest is... such track doesn't exist.
He didn´t manage to homage the predecessors and nobiliate the score? Tracks like "Coprocloakia", "Skinned and hanged", "Predator arrival" or "Decimation Proclamation" doesn´t ring a bell in this reviewer?
PawelStroinski wrote
I wonder if any track division makes any sense here, because they all are so similar. Subsequent tracks don't bring any kind of innovation, instrumental or illustrative. In twenty minutes one is already full of all the instrumental and illustrative overuses.
Ok, I give him that, is not a subtle score and not the most original, but I insist in what the reviewer (and Pawel, you too! ) doesn´t got: the movie is just action set piece after action set piece. We won´t have story development, no character development, no drama, no resolutions, no nothing! The question is: what should have Tyler done? Write a minimalist score to be performed by a little ensemble? Say no to the project "because I don´t wanna have a great time writing as bold and loud as possible?"
PawelStroinski wrote
It's nothing more than 77 minut of horrific noise.
Ohh, ok (he could have saved the "horrific" at least).
PawelStroinski wrote
Summary time: Brian Tyler wasted another chance to show what he's up to (unless, indeed he has nothing to show).
He has nothing to show, ´cause he has already done that since he started.
PawelStroinski wrote
It makes one ask where does film music go today. AVP 2 is indeed a perfect requiem for now forgotten and emotionally involved compositional techniques".
Hmm...."a perfect requiem for now forgotten and emotionally involved compositional techniques? Has this guy listened something else in 2007? If not, he can read the "The best of 2007" of this forum. I think there are several examples of "emotionally involved compositional techniques". Those "film music is dead" arguments are soooo tiresome.
Thanks for the translation Pawel and sorry I´ve been quoting the review as if it was yours, but I really didn´t know what to put instead (I thought of "Pawel´s Translation Wrote" but didn´t like it ).
Anyway, looking forward to Demetris´s review; I´m afraid it´s gonna be right the opposite!Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJan 6th 2008
I really wanted to say more but I'm tired and off to bed.
Reading through these last few posts really made me want to hear Tyler's score.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeJan 6th 2008
Some of the views expressed are too disrespectful and even ignorant to be answered here. Will try to reply to the good points made however, in my review.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 6th 2008
No problem, Marselus and let me put some things in context of the review.
The website features a track-by-track evaluation, aside for the full one - it was a two-star review. Decimation Proclamation got two stars out of five too. So there.
RCS bastard child is an overstatement and very unfair to Tyler, though he does seem to have been influenced by Zimmer in some of his rhythmic ideas, all over his career, particularly in Fast and Furious, I would say. But except some motifs it's rather an influence than rip. In AVP 2 I am rather unhappy with what he does with Horner's stuff though.
Didn't manage to do a homage. Maybe something got lost in translation (except the fact that I've been translating it from Polish, mind you that ENglish is not my primary language). I think he just wanted to say it's a crappy homage. There was a discussion here (with me partly) whether the influences are a homage or a cheap copy. I'd say there is a fair amount of copying here including the praised Decimation Proclamation, which for me doesn't refer to Horner, but takes pages from him. The same I would say about Taking Sides. I would agree that for me the score doesn't work out well as a homage.
The argument that Tyler is responsible for "killing" film music is actually quite popular in Polish community. He is hardly respected here, except Children of Dune which got some praises with criticizing the Gladiator influences. Timeline was liked too. Godsend, Annapolis, Fast and the Furious rather not.
Generic... I do think the score is generic and he gave perfect examples of non-generic raw action material - War of the Worlds, Lost, The Edge. Some people would add Godzilla, but I am not as impressed by Arnold's score as some people are here. I would add the raw brutality of JNH's King Kong here too. Of course, JNH is quite derivative with Goldsmith and Stravinsky getting quite a workout here, but that's how it looks like. To this I will add the thing that the film is constant action. So what? People did action-only scores with more refinement than Tyler.
Generally, yes, the review is disrespectful to Tyler in many means. However I do agree with the reviewer that, really, Tyler hasn't shown much yet even with the scores you were praising. My arguments against him are being loud for the sake of being loud without any decent thematic development in the action (where is the counterpoint even Goldsmith was giving. Where are thematic references Giacchino likes to give? Where is the rhythmic sensitivity Powell, Giacchino have?), just playing out loud apocalypse which to some level is complex, but really not very refined. This is a problem I tend to have with Silvestri too, really. If I want loud, I want something either very complex (Goldenthal, Giacchino sans M:I-3, earlier Goldsmith, Williams, sometimes Horner, though he undermixes action or concentrates on different orchestral details) or very melodic (Zimmer, some RC composers, late Goldsmith STILL with his odd meter sensitivities, which are an asset). Tyler for me doesn't fit anywhere here except Fast and the Furious 3. I will give one great track to him. I really adore that one - Neela Drifts. He is a great drummer, that I have to give him.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 6th 2008
Well Pawel, of course this reviewer´s opinion (by the way, does he has a name? I hate call someone "the reviewer") is as respectful as any other. In terms of tastes and likes / dislikes we could be arguing for ages.
The thing is while reading the review (even out of context as you´ve made clear) I had the feeling that the reviewer has something almost personal against Tyler (more or less the same feeling I have when I read a Clemmensen review of a Zimmer work). Too many harsh attacks against Tyler´s persona.
I´m not a musical trained person, so I can´t enter analising the deep of a composition, or the technique or whatever. But some of the arguments of the review (such as the "horrific noise", "Tyler killing film music", etc) seem to me pretty overdramatic and over the top. Honestly, I´d love to read more reviews by this guy, just to see his arguments when he likes a score; or when he doesn´t, to see if he is always as hard as with Tyler.
As for the "generic score" issue, I keep saying that this is AVP2. The examples you´ve given ("Lost", "War of the Worlds", "King Kong", hell, even "Godzilla") have more deep, more meat for the composer to elaborate his music. I simply think the directors wanted a wall to wall score (or "loud for the sake of being loud" quoting you) and that´s what Tyler has provided (and succeeds, IMO). Of course we´ll never know what Giacchino, Powell or Santaolalla would have done with this score: maybe a completely different approach, maybe something quite similar, maybe a totally original work....
Demetris, a little help, please!
By the way, I don´t joke when I say I´d like to read more of this reviewer or, assuming that he only writes in Polish (in that case you won´t like to spend your time translating for me ) at least tell us some action oriented scores he has really liked (at least with a 3 - 3 1/2 star rate).Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeJan 6th 2008
Well after listening to AVPR finally, it's quite evident Brian Tyler was successful in blowing up the Hollywood Studio Symphony. That score was nuts.