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BRIAN TYLER
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- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
If AVP2 is not emotional, it's because it was written for an apparently emotion-less, senseless film. For those who find such films to be engaging, or would if they were made properly, AVP2 presses the right buttons. For those who don't, well.....I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008 edited
AVP:R is emotional as in thrilling and exciting.
Emotion doesn't need to be touching or heartbreaking.
Anyway, AVPR is not a score I like as much as other do here (or do not). I'm abit in the middle. I love the opening track, blows your ears away and impresses a lot. I can get throug half of the album bu then I fail to keep interest. It defenitely has Tylers style, the raging strings and nervous brass are in almost all ction cues, so no doubt that this is a Tyler score. The hinting to the other Alien scores is a nice touch, one that didn't appear in the first AVP (but Kloser used a different sound for each creature). I don't agree with what our new forum member wrote (hello btw, great of you to jump into the battle and defend your words! ). All in all, it's fun, but perhaps too much.Kazoo -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008 edited
All those arguments presented in the last page seem strictly based on personal taste and not validated through any musical basis or argument beyond personal preferences whatsoever. What if you don't like him or his music, at all? That doesn't in fact prove that AVP:R is not a hell of a beast, a damn fun and damn energetic ride, a VERY good score, at all; especially since it was composed to accompany such a horrible piece of crap! Don't people even think a bit nowadays?Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
I don't fin AVP2 engaging, absolutely! It's stupid blockbuster. AVP2 is a disaster even as an autonomous work. It has nothing interresting inside. It's uniform and completely wothout any idea. It's a craft, like I wrote. What buttons it presses? Sense of kitsch? -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
But how something so derivative can be an "energetic ride"? For me an "energetic ride" is when something breaks standarts or uses things that are already made in a spectacular and interresting way. -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
No musical basis? And do your arguments have musical basis, Mr Christodoulides? Didn't you noticed that in my review? ("mars - the bringer of war", all is based on works by alan silvestri, james horner, elliot goldenthal, loud and chaotic, primitive sonoristic effects). What else should I say? -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008 edited
Polish Eagle wrote
But how something so derivative can be an "energetic ride"? For me an "energetic ride" is when something breaks standarts or uses things that are already made in a spectacular and interresting way.
So, by that description, you must like.......hmmm, let's see......roughly one score each year?
I mean come on, "spectacular" and "interesting" is something that perfectly describes what i (and many other people i am sure) DO feel when playing loud the mind-blowing 7 minute mayhem of "Decimation Proclamation". It makes me shiver with its unstoppable energy, its enormous and powerful percussion section, the dense arrangements and clever use of clusters, the firmly driving rhythms, its intensity, its vigor, all enough to warrant a highly intense emotional experience for me and a hell of a thrilling rush of adrenaline through each and every listen. What serious arguments do you have besides "Brian Tyler can't write a single note and i sooo not like him", "avp:r is this and that 'cause i say so", "avp:r is shit" and so on?Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008 edited
Oh; excuse me. Plagiarism; Mars and a parade of names of all the other previous Alian composers.
How friggin' original.
AVP:R is the perfect modern tribute to everything we love in film music and is sadly long-gone for years, it has BALLS and it has character; Brian tyler's character all over it, in its rhythms, the harmonic procession, the motifs, the structure. But one would certainly not be able to hear that if going around proclaiming Tyler can't write and who's Brian Tyler anyway-isms.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
What's interresting in the harmonic procession, in rhythms, motifs and structure? All this things are average and we can often come them across in movie music in much better edition. -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
"Powerful percussion"? I can do a powerfull percussion too I think you pay too much attention to simple and obvious elements.
I see we can't achieve an agreement. Maybe it's because of the cultural differences, which condition different sense of esthetics? I don't want to say, that your sense of esthetics is worse or something like that of course. Let's just close the topic -
- CommentAuthortjguitar
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Polish Eagle wrote
But how something so derivative can be an "energetic ride"? For me an "energetic ride" is when something breaks standarts or uses things that are already made in a spectacular and interresting way.
Why does something have to be original in order for it to be energetic? That seems like an odd qualifier. -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Polish Eagle wrote
But how something so derivative can be an "energetic ride"?
Music can be derivative and equally energetic. You can't deny that AVP R, even though the score is based on material heard in countless others score, still has a lot of power and energy.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Polish Eagle wrote
But how something so derivative can be an "energetic ride"? For me an "energetic ride" is when something breaks standarts or uses things that are already made in a spectacular and interresting way.
Hmmm....if the score of AVP2 does something is breaking standards making it spectacular and interesting. As I´ve said many times during the past weeks the easy way of approaching the score would have been to write a standard horror / action score: something generic, unsubstantial, only to add some noise to the film. Tyler, on the other hand, decided to join the party and, even knowing that the score would be almost unlistenable due to the constant sound effetcs of the film, has written an action packed score, full of references to the previous composers but with his style everywhere (´cause Tyler DOES have a style), "gifting" us with a BIG ride full of percussion, brass and fastest string progressions ever.
The most original score of the year? I don´t think so (but for a film like AVP2, yes), but please name one or two scores of this 2007 (or 2006) in which, in your opinion, any standard is broken. Of course your opinion is as respectful as any other (if you don´t like it, you don´t like it, no more to say) but I´m not convinced by your aguments against it. One more time: we are dealing with AVP2, a piece of crap from minute one ´til the end. So Tyler has provided FAR more (LUCKY US!) this film deserved.Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Marselus wrote
One more time: we are dealing with AVP2, a piece of crap from minute one ´til the end. So Tyler has provided FAR more (LUCKY US!) this film deserved.
But here is something that I don't think is a valid argument either. Film composers don't write crappy scores for crappy films and save the good music for the good films. These guys, 99% of the time, write the best music they can no matter how well the film is received. Goldsmith did it, Williams has done it, as has every single film composer out there. So, I'm never surprised that a composer delivers gold for shit films. Most of the time the score is the only positive aspect when a film is released.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
Marselus wrote
One more time: we are dealing with AVP2, a piece of crap from minute one ´til the end. So Tyler has provided FAR more (LUCKY US!) this film deserved.
But here is something that I don't think is a valid argument either. Film composers don't write crappy scores for crappy films and save the good music for the good films. These guys, 99% of the time, write the best music they can no matter how well the film is received.
-Erik-
My point is it would have been easier (and faster) to approach it in a different way (I mean with less effort and "inspiration"), but you´re right, I think he has written what he thinks is the best score possible for the film. If this is the case, which I´m pretty sure of, then for me he has succeeded.Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Marselus wrote
The most original score of the year? I don´t think so (but for a film like AVP2, yes), but please name one or two scores of this 2007 (or 2006) in which, in your opinion, any standard is broken.
At World's End...broke Zimmer's standard of writing scores that rely on electronics.I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Scribe wrote
Marselus wrote
The most original score of the year? I don´t think so (but for a film like AVP2, yes), but please name one or two scores of this 2007 (or 2006) in which, in your opinion, any standard is broken.
At World's End...broke Zimmer's standard of writing scores that rely on electronics.
Hehe...touché .
But Hans broke this standard a looooooooong time ago.Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Something that break standarts? I think this year we've got nothing like that, but I wrote too "uses things that are already made in a spectacular and interresting way". In my opinion two scores come up with these demandings: "Gods and Generals" and "The Story Of The Great King And The Four Gods" and "The Assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford".
One more thing. You missunderstood me. I wrote "But how something so derivative can be an "energetic ride"?", beacuse for me, when I've heard something so many times, even if I like that kind of music (I really like powerfull, orchestral scores with balls ) it gets me bored. How can we listen to the same thing all the time? -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Ups. Sorry. No "Gods and Generals" My fault. -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
I forgot to earase it (I know it's 2003 score) -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Polish Eagle wrote
One more thing. You missunderstood me. I wrote "But how something so derivative can be an "energetic ride"?", beacuse for me, when I've heard something so many times, even if I like that kind of music (I really like powerfull, orchestral scores with balls ) it gets me bored. How can we listen to the same thing all the time?
Alright... you were just using the wrong word then. You have to admit that AVP R contains a lot of energy. I think that's a indisputable fact. But since you have your standards, which is looking for something complete original (so you must hate 99% of all film music written) then when you hear something like AVP R, which uses material and ideas from the other films in the series (I don't see the problem here) then you are completely turned off.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Polish Eagle wrote
don't accuse me of creating riddiculous arguments.
Where exactly did I do that?
You´re arguments are not ridiculous, they just don´t persuade me to dislike music that makes me bang my head (out of all the good reasons, of course)... -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 13th 2008
Christodoulides wrote
Oh; excuse me. Plagiarism; Mars and a parade of names of all the other previous Alian composers.
How friggin' original.
AVP:R is the perfect modern tribute to everything we love in film music and is sadly long-gone for years, it has BALLS and it has character; Brian tyler's character all over it, in its rhythms, the harmonic procession, the motifs, the structure. But one would certainly not be able to hear that if going around proclaiming Tyler can't write and who's Brian Tyler anyway-isms.
I must agree with Andrzej here. The Brian Tylerisms were done before and better. Frailty is all about repeating cliche chord progressions heard in most of orchestral thrillers, the action music does feature Zimmerish rhythms above Goldsmithian brass that is loud for the sake of being loud. There is a rhythm I would call his, but he's been repeating it since like Darkness Falls without much evolution. And the motif that is used in AVP: R with this rhythm is... the Silvestri theme.
Voice or not voice. The question is how strong is a composer voice. Whereas I can find Tyler in basic themes (I definitely find it in the Rambo chord progressions, though I'm afraid the rest of the suite is just reworking It's a Long Road and it's Tyler's best material possibly about 80% because of the quality of the original theme, yes I may be harsh), based on simple four-chord progressions. I can find him in pop rhythm in Fast and Furious: Tokyo Drift's Neela Drifts. But really that's not much.
Influences, cheap copies, homages. I agree with Andrzej that AVP: R fails as a homage. And I think he may be right Tyler fails, because he himself has not enough to show in the score, because he picked to just refer rather than intelligently put the references into completely his material. The only piece that I find a good homage is Coprocloakia. There is simply too little own invention. I don't care and never cared about the film. I look at the album and that's what I see.
The review was rather harsh on Tyler himself, I must agree with the board here. Though as I said, he isn't very much respected in Polish score review community. Myself, I appreciate his organic qualities, the fact that he works with orchestras, but sadly I can't call him one of the greats, because of a very weak (in terms of general strength, not quality) voice. You have to dig deeply in to get the TYLER sound and frankly, I don't think his scores deserve such in-depth analyses. Myself, I tried and ended up where I ended up. I wonder what Rambo will be. And I am afraid of getting more of the same. Quality-wise he is a decent composer, though there are dozens better working today. And the reason behind my attacks on his music is the fact that you seem to forget about them. AVP: R could have been a better score, in terms of structure, harmonic progressions, everything. What we have is an unoriginal, monotonous (though energetic, just too little respite here, had there been more "Striptease" material, the score would have benefitted a lot as an album, by monotony I mean the fact that, as Andrzej noticed perfectly well, everything sounds the same) piece, which is sadly loud for the sake of being loud rather than having a very careful construction. And don't tell me that it's AVP: R which is a crappy film. That's a problem I have generally with Tyler's action music. He just goes loud, where some refining, maybe slightly more intelligence put into the orchestration (not that I find Tyler a stupid or something, the orchestrations could have been smarter, look at Goldsmith, JNH, Williams, Giacchino, Beltrami, even if I don't really like him much, Arnold).http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
But since you have your standards, which is looking for something complete original (so you must hate 99% of all film music written) (...)
That's what i said too!
"So, by that description, you must like.......hmmm, let's see......roughly one score each year? "Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2008
Christodoulides wrote
Erik Woods wrote
But since you have your standards, which is looking for something complete original (so you must hate 99% of all film music written) (...)
That's what i said too!
"So, by that description, you must like.......hmmm, let's see......roughly one score each year? "
So you did. I must have missed it!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2008 edited
PawelStroinski wrote
Christodoulides wrote
Oh; excuse me. Plagiarism; Mars and a parade of names of all the other previous Alian composers.
How friggin' original.
AVP:R is the perfect modern tribute to everything we love in film music and is sadly long-gone for years, it has BALLS and it has character; Brian tyler's character all over it, in its rhythms, the harmonic procession, the motifs, the structure. But one would certainly not be able to hear that if going around proclaiming Tyler can't write and who's Brian Tyler anyway-isms.
I must agree with Andrzej here. The Brian Tylerisms were done before and better. Frailty is all about repeating cliche chord progressions heard in most of orchestral thrillers,
So does 85% of the film music outcome today we, you and all listen to and like, no matter how good or bad it might is eventually. You just stuck with the Tyler case; no big deal.
Voice or not voice. The question is how strong is a composer voice. Whereas I can find Tyler in basic themes (I definitely find it in the Rambo chord progressions, though I'm afraid the rest of the suite is just reworking It's a Long Road and it's Tyler's best material possibly about 80% because of the quality of the original theme, yes I may be harsh), based on simple four-chord progressions. I can find him in pop rhythm in Fast and Furious: Tokyo Drift's Neela Drifts. But really that's not much.
I really can't understand you people, the ones supporting the idea behind a lack of personal musical identification traits in Tyler's work as they're - as generally admitted, easily discernible and widely spread amidst his works; either you're so biased to admit that YES, IT FRIGGIN' IS THERE BUT I DON'T LIKE IT, HIM OR HIS MUSIC, AT ALL either.......you're so biased!
There's no other end, why repeat the same arguments all over again?
Influences, cheap copies, homages. I agree with Andrzej that AVP: R fails as a homage.
No; no; no!
It's an awesome homage, done with great spirits and professionalism up to the very last small musical detail, a great modern look to everything we've loved and sadly miss in our great film music, carrying enormous amounts of adrenaline and unstoppable energy and it would be better for the sake of not having the same stuff repeated by both sides all over again, that YOU don't f* like it and YOU have a problem with him and his music; i have nothing against such a position, it's perfectly natural and acceptable based on everyone's tastes and we all DO have cases of composers others love but we just can't stand.
Going around proclaiming in severe and point-black ways that TYLER can't write or TYLER has no talent etc etc simply 'cause you don't like his stuff, won't get you anywhere; especially since we're talking about a highly prolific and successful film composer, one who admittedly and evidently brings long-gone pleasure to the hearts of LOTS of film music fans (just look around you) and blasts our damn speakers with good ol' fashioned, ballsy film music!
The review was rather harsh on Tyler himself, I must agree with the board here. Though as I said, he isn't very much respected in Polish score review community.
Exactly; as for the latter point, i know I seem harsh now as well, but i told you before that i don't care WHEN THE VIEWS ARE EXPRESSED IN SUCH autocratic ways.
Who the f*ck is Brian Tyler one asks in full irony and egoism? Well, let me tell you: Who the f*ck are you or me to challenge that?! *
Cheers!
* Not intended towards you, Pawel; you know thatLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2008
Demetris, I stated that AVP fails as a homage not because of energy or something. There is not enough "own" material there for me to be a homage rather than reworking of the series. As I said the moment I found the most Tyleresque ended up to be Silvestri's Predator theme.
I think the problem lies somewhere else, really. I've been wondering why Tyler is so adored by the community. We in Poland really aren't very far from calling him simply a hack. Except from my problems with the strength of his style I have some others, myself, though IMHO he's maybe not a hack, but I don't think he deserves all the assignments he gets. One wonders about composers like Carter Burwell on some action (YES! just for the sake of his very strong style - that would be peculiar, even if he failed) projects.
I have two major problems. First is the structure. Cool, loud, orchestral, ballsy. But where is the refinement? Don't talk about the movies - Goldsmith made very refined technically scores for crap movies. Tyler just writes the whole orchestra in and is rather messy, where Thor agreed with me. There is writing for an orchestra and writing for an orchestra, sorry guys, but I can't compare Tyler's orchestral writing even to Beltrami. I am not a fan of Beltrami myself, but I know he has a very discernible style and Hellboy was great (wouldn't call it a masterpiece like Demetris, but I did find it great), but his writing is just more refined, I believe. I won't go with Giacchino because for some reason Demetris finds comparisons between Giacchino and Tyler unfair, even if the comparison is for the sake of the same generation.
Second thing is performance. OK, proffessional. Technically amazing, pulls the right stops. But there is nothing really compelling to his orchestral performances, sorry. Partition didn't work for me much. He is good in restraint - I liked the theme in Paparazzi, even if very Zimmerish, because of that restraint. But comparing the unfortunate Greatest Game Ever Played to Horner's Legends of the Fall only in the performance aspect, Tyler falls very shortly, sorry. Even recent Zimmer has very good performances, giving it a touch I find most of the composers lack, let me give you only the examples of Spanglish, Da Vinci Code and Pirates of the Caribbean 3. And he even doesn't conduct himself! Giacchino - the same (Lost strings). Also the best composers have that. Tyler is very by the numbers, got the professional touch, but to me there is a fine line between craft and art and Tyler has failed to crossed it yet.
I am harsh, etc. But I try to make it even really. I find Tyler yet to be a rather decent to slightly above average composer. You seem to praise him like he was another Goldsmith or what. The thing is that he is not. And I will state that everytime I have the opportunity to do so. Sorry guys, but me and many of my friends rather fail to see the Tyler greatness. The fact that he can write for orchestra doesn't do anything for me, because it's still craft. I dare to ask about the art.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2008
PawelStroinski wrote
I won't go with Giacchino because for some reason Demetris finds comparisons between Giacchino and Tyler unfair, even if the comparison is for the sake of the same generation.
And that's where the comparison between the two should end. Don't insult Giacchino by comparing him to Tyler.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorAndrew
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2008
That’s right! Thank you, Pawel! There’s a big difference between craft and art. When blacksmith makes everyday exactly the same horseshoe, which construction is entirely based on a scheme created by his father, is it a work of art? Music can’t be sticking in one place all the time. It must develop. I think you should wake up from the dream of Golden Age music and try to go farther. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJan 14th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
PawelStroinski wrote
I won't go with Giacchino because for some reason Demetris finds comparisons between Giacchino and Tyler unfair, even if the comparison is for the sake of the same generation.
And that's where the comparison between the two should end. Don't insult Giacchino by comparing him to Tyler.
-Erik-
Erik, who should I compare him to? Paul Haslinger? If I want to prove that Tyler's not as good, I have to pick the right names....http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website