Plagiarism in film music

It happens quite often, I guess, on various levels. There's self-plagiarism (notably from Horner), copying of colleagues within Remote Controll in style or themes (Transformers, for example), or just blatant copying from fellow composers (Tyler Bates got himself in trouble when copying Goldenthal's Titus for 300).

The most common reason is 'temp track love', where the film gets a temporary score from music of other composers to give the director a general idea of what the sound and style of the music is going to be. Yet the director starts to love it so much, that either the director requests the composer to write 'something just like it', or the creativity of the composer gets damages by getting used to that music to the scene.

It's a much talked about subject, actually, and there are lots of reasons for or examples of, more often rather complicated than just 'stealing music'.

Not just that, he also criticises colleagues for doing that exact same thing, condemning their copying as among the biggest crime in composition there is (like his comment on Gabriel Yareds The English Patient), just as if he would never do such a thing. Nah, I don't really like that guy...

Yeah... but that topic is just on the actual copying and what examples there are of it. I guess this topic could be used for discussions on it; is it bad, why do they do it, 'n stuff?

Sure, but I recall one of the conditions of the threat was not to pass judgement on the compositions, and just enjoy the similarities between the compositions and 'how many do you know?', more like trivia. So, over here, you can focus then on the discussions and criticism, or why they made those choices

Plagiarism is perhaps a harsh word if you're including discussions on intentionally using another composers influence (without deception)... like a tribute.



Fantastic! That was one of the high points of the movie-- a brilliant heist scene! A very under-rated DePalma work.

Another example that comes to mind is JW's Harry Potter/Prisoner of Azkaban with Aunt Marge's waltz obviously influenced by Rossini's Thieving Magpie overture

A musician is his influences, what he listens to since day 1; an artist is what his personal database consists of. It's the most natural, logical fact of what being a creative artist is. I'd say get over it and enjoy the music instead.

we are talking about Horner?

ok please take topics like this back to that other board. Topics like this one unnerve me to know end.



sd

Sorry dj its just well go spend some time at the FSM board and you will see what I mean.

sd


No harm No foul.

No worries mate, no tensions around here. Just good ol' debating and expressions of honesty and such Cheers
D

Nothing wrong with the topic. It's the behaviour on that other board that's the problem.

Peter

I like Horner and Zimmer, and dislike mindless bashing too, so you're not alone. I still think it's an interesting topic to discuss, and valid criticism should be welcome.

Peter

This whole question of plagiarism has been going on for hundreds of years. Variations on a Theme by Haydn, a work written by Brahms, certainly gives due recognition to Haydn. You can't plagiarize yourself. If Horner wants to reuse his themes he has every right to do so. If Williams asks the Korngold estate permission to use one of his motifs in a score it is acceptable. Each generation uses thoughts and ideas from the previous. Steiner and Korngold both studied Wagner. Beethoven studied Mozart. Schoenberg studied Brahms and sounded like him until he enlarged the 12 tone concept he studied from Hauer. The true artist wants to be original. Read what Stravinsky has to say on the subject sometime.

I think the area of soundtrack composition is a unique one because the majority of it is done for money and likely the only way that many survive. They could not go out and create a concert work and receive the money that they get from a score. Ex. Gordon, a famous Australian composer, wrote a concerto for bass trombone. #1... I doubt that it has ever been performed in the US by a major symphony orchestra.
#2... I have never ever seen it for sale! Why? People want to hear other things from their symphony which is also all about money.

Do we say anything about Rozsa and how he created a wonderful violin concerto and then reused the whole thing in Private Life of Sherlock Holmes? Korngold took his great theme from Sea Wolf and put it in a quartet of his. He used the theme from Robin Hood in his Symphony?

Bottom line. Very very hard to be original

My entire argument should be food for thought, perhaps a paper from your brain.