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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2017
    Tragic to me is that "Realism" has become a compliment for a genre literally called "Fantasy"
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2017 edited
    I suppose it depends on what part of it they are complimenting. It's relatively realistic in its depiction of sex, violence and politics, but it's set against a fantastical world. If things become too far removed from how people would behave in any given situation, I don't find I can connect with it. I much prefer Thrones to Lord of the Rings for this reason; it focuses on characters, people, rather than places and events. Realism, to me, can exist in any genre.
  1. Martijn wrote
    Funnily enough, it was the absolute reverse for me.

    I started off wildly enthusiastically, but got less and less interested as the most favorable of plot solutions time and again was 'let's just kill him/her/them'. I quit during season 5, and don't miss it a bit.
    Still, what a fantastic opening credits segment!


    But it still shocks me when they do exactly that... I mean it's not like I ever see it coming.

    And the way some of the important characters are killed off leaves nothing to the imagination.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2017 edited
    Steven wrote
    If things become too far removed from how people would behave in any given situation, I don't find I can connect with it. I much prefer Thrones to Lord of the Rings for this reason; it focuses on characters, people, rather than places and events. Realism, to me, can exist in any genre.


    I think "Realism" today generally means washed out colors, moping around, people getting killed for no reason, etc. That's not really a reflection of the real world, because, um, the real world is pretty strange, full of coincidences and odd personages. Much of modern realism focuses primarily on misery; anyone can tell you life is full of plenty of other emotions, joy, humor, sorrow, confusion, contentment, worry. In truth, the world is an endlessly surprising place, and I'd expect "realism" to reflect that. But modern fantasy realism is concerned with the one-eyed dirty peasants eating disgusting potato-soup over a low fire muttering about "Recent raids". This isn't really realistic, its more like life with all the interesting parts drained out.

    But more importantly I think the problem is that fantasy stories ought not to operate to the rules of our real world. The magic of fantasy (good fantasy) is that anything can happen. During fairy-tales, we don't need to know how the 'mirror on the wall' works or why a kiss can wake up Sleeping Beauty.

    Even The Lord of the Rings seems far too realistic for me to qualify as "fantasy". It's a specific subsection of fantasy called Arthurian Romance, and that subsection has grown to dominate most of modern fantasy writing and media.

    People refer to Tolkien as the "father of fantasy" yet many have argued that fantasy nearly died with him. His formula is easy to imitate; thus we get imitator after imitator. The sad part is, when people think of fantasy, all they think about is Wheel of Time, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, the medieval, gritty, swords-and-sorcery side of fantasy. What should be a subgenre of fantasy has squeezed out all the other subgenres.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2017 edited
    Oh and in addition to my above post, don't take me as any literary critic or anything. I'm just as fervent as new converts usually are. Only in the past year or so have I began to get into fantasy. smile
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2017
    Arrival - 2016

    Glad to finally see this! It felt a bit monotone at times, but I was never bored. Great, twisty science fiction thriller, with a really brilliant concept. [spoiler]Understanding their language lets us think like the aliens do.[/spoiler]
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  2. I thoroughly enjoyed ARRIVAL. It was one of my favorite films from last year.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2017
    Honestly, I feel as if Arrival ought to really be the average for Science-Fiction films, but as things are, it's one of the best.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  3. I love that kind of of philosophical scifi. But I wouldn't trade it for any laser blasts driven space opera. smile
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2017
    Being more from the old school I like material such as "The Day The Earth Stood Still"
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2017
    I like "The Day the Earth Stood Still" too, I saw it when I was quite young, and I loved it. I remember chuckling at the poster that promised an action packed pulp-fest; the movie is quite thoughtful.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2017
    And of course the theme is yet another classic from Herrmann. While he wasn't the first to use the theremin his use of it in this science fiction film certainly ended up being a template for so many other films.
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2017
    I watched "Man in the Attic," another Jack the Ripper film from 20th Century Fox in 1953. Jack Palance who also did the same year one of his memorable roles, the gunfighter in "Shane" did n't do the role well at all. My personal favorite is Laird Cregar in "The Lodger," from 1944. Sadly no one really knows him today but the few films he did were all ones you want to see again and again. "Hangover Square" and "I Wake Up Screaming are two more examples of some of his work.
    listen to more classical music!
  4. David Gilmour - Wider Horizons BBC Documentary

    Basically why the man is a legend. Loved every minute of it.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017
    It's a good documentary. Saw it a year ago or so.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017 edited
    yeah

    One of my guitar heroes, such a distinctive signature sound.

    My fave guitarists in no particular order include...

    Dave Gilmour
    Pat Metheny
    Jeff Beck
    Jimi Hendrix
    Roy Buchanan
    Hank Marvin
    Mike Oldfield
    John Martyn
    Django Reinhardt

    I could name a few more. All brilliant talents but it's about the sound that appeals to me over technical ability.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017 edited
    No John Williams? Christopher Parkening? Santana? Mark Knopfler? Eric Clapton?
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
    As I said Thor, 'I could name a few more' wink

    Of your list Santana is one of my favourites.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
    Timmer wrote
    Django Reinhardt


    Quite.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017 edited
    <!> SPOILER ALERT <!>

    Logan

    What a massive disappointment this film was. And I was so prepared to enjoy it!

    Logan wants to be realistic. It's realism comes in two brands: people slaughtering other people or people yelling at other people. The movie evokes no emotion but misery its entire 2 and a half hour run time. I was willing to put up with it for the first 30 minutes or so, but two hours in, when STILL all Logan was doing was drinking and yelling and growling at people and feeling sorry for himself, I gave up, closed my eyes, and just laughed. I chuckled through the entire overwrought finale. It was all I could do!

    Logan's defenders will say it's not meant to entertain. And sure! I'm fine with a movie that doesn't entertain, as long as it does something else. So what does Logan do? Seek to fill the viewer with awe and pathos at heroes finally meeting their end? No, Logan has saved the world in the past, and he dies in an unceremonious, awkward manner. Professor X is dealing with guilt and shame, but his character arc has hardly begun before he is murdered. Does it seek to communicate some profound truth? Does it even seek to be a great tragedy? To infuse the superhero genre with realism? Does it say something deep and profound about dealing with your past?

    This isn't a sad movie; sadness requires that we empathize and care for the characters. At the end of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 I felt actually sad at Gwen's death. Why? Because I'd watched Peter and Gwen smile and struggle and grow as characters and fulfill their purposes. Because these were characters!

    Logan meanwhile felt like watching someone's angry alcoholic uncle storm around, killing people and yelling. I mean seriously. I can't count how many times Laura or Professor X tried to do something to cheer Logan up and he was all growling, "Not funny! Now shut up! We gotta go!"

    This isn't a realistic movie; the real world is full of all kinds of emotions, all types of people. In the real world, people cope with stress in other ways than growling at each other. In the real world, perhaps Logan would pause his car during an incredible sunset and we'd get just a minute of the little family taking a breath. But Logan's idea of the real world is summed up in one line of dialogue. "In the real world, people die!"

    Not only is it a miserable movie, its a bad movie as well. The villains are unclear and badly developed. We know nothing about them and the government program they work for is hardly developed. We never understand really why they are chasing the children. How Eden came to be is never explained. What they will do once they cross the border is never explained. Whether or not that government agency is defeated is never explained. And its not like this stuff is left for us to decipher, its just blank space, confusing what ought to have been a simple plot. And seriously, they pause during the final fight scene for a monologue. But don't worry the good guys just happen to have the silver bullet that lets them shoot their way to victory. Hurrah!

    The whole movie seems to have been made with the sole goal of killing off Professor X and Logan, because after they're dead, the movie just sputters to a stop. The end. And for characters who have been with us for 17 years, what a pathetic way to go out! It's like Kirk's death in Generations, "The Bridge on the Captain". X is just killed in his bed abruptly, and Logan is thrown onto a log. Neither of them died in a way that made me proud of these characters. As I said, these were heroes who've saved the world, and they received abrupt, unceremonious, pointless killings.

    I didn't expect to dislike this movie so much.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  5. Wow, that's a massive amount of letters. Pawel got company. wink Though I must say in that regard Pawel is but a shadow of his former self.

    smile Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
    I think I wrote so much because I was surprised! The trailers to Logan were beautiful and promised a great movie.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
    Aidabaida wrote
    <!> SPOILER ALERT <!>

    Logan

    This isn't a realistic movie; the real world is full of all kinds of emotions, all types of people. In the real world, people cope with stress in other ways than growling at each other. In the real world, perhaps Logan would pause his car during an incredible sunset and we'd get just a minute of the little family taking a breath. But Logan's idea of the real world is summed up in one line of dialogue. "In the real world, people die!"


    He's not wrong (Logan that is). That aside, and though I appreciate your impassioned case, have you considered it's a more realistic protrayel of the character rather than being realistic in general? I think if I had Wolverine's life experiences, I'd be pretty gruff too!
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017
    Sure, definitely. It's probably a realistic portrayal of the character. But I'd rather have a good movie than a realistic one. There's a scene in Logan where his phone battery runs out, so he buys a charger, and then keeps using his phone. That's realistic, and it's the stuff the critics praised it for. But people also need to apply deodorant, do laundry, and take showers, but I have no interest in watching that in a movie. So, for sure, Logan may realistically portray Wolverine's character, but that's not a compliment if it doesn't make the movie any better. I could film myself clipping my toenails and it would be realistic but that doesn't make it worthwhile.

    But there's ways to work around it. If one of your characters is constantly gruff and miserable, then offset it, bring some balance in with other emotions. Take the movie "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World". That's a gritty, realistic movie. But we see the characters have dinner and smile and share stories. We see them play classical music together below deck. We see them make tough decisions. We see them deal with tragedy, and with happiness. We get to watch them through a whole spectrum of emotions and get to know and care about them.

    So, we have a broken and depressed Logan, portrayed realistically. That's fine. But when everyone else is broken and depressed, then we don't really have a movie, we have a miserable, exhausting experience. And to be sure, I'll put up with a miserable, exhausting movie if there's a point, a catharsis, a payoff. But in Logan, he dies and the movie's just over. That's it. There's nothing beyond Logan's death to make the experience worthwhile.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017 edited
    Aidabaida wrote
    Sure, definitely. It's probably a realistic portrayal of the character. But I'd rather have a good movie than a realistic one. There's a scene in Logan where his phone battery runs out, so he buys a charger, and then keeps using his phone. That's realistic, and it's the stuff the critics praised it for. But people also need to apply deodorant, do laundry, and take showers, but I have no interest in watching that in a movie. So, for sure, Logan may realistically portray Wolverine's character, but that's not a compliment if it doesn't make the movie any better. I could film myself clipping my toenails and it would be realistic but that doesn't make it worthwhile.


    I don't think that's what critics were praising it for. That said, I actually appreciated the phone battery element. It doesn't need to show all aspects of reality; just the appropriate parts relevant to the narrative. It also allowed for a small but crucial moment of comedy.


    So, we have a broken and depressed Logan, portrayed realistically. That's fine. But when everyone else is broken and depressed, then we don't really have a movie, we have a miserable, exhausting experience. And to be sure, I'll put up with a miserable, exhausting movie if there's a point, a catharsis, a payoff. But in Logan, he dies and the movie's just over. That's it. There's nothing beyond Logan's death to make the experience worthwhile.


    I appreciate where you're coming from, but for me the tone felt consistent rather than oppressive. Different strokes, I guess.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017 edited
    relevant to the narrative.


    So just wondering, how was Logan's phone running out battery relevant to the narrative?
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017 edited
    That it's set in a believable, grounded world. That doesn't by extention require him to do his laundry and take the requisite number of showers given the timespan of the film. You only need a few moments like that -- anything more risks being superfluous. It's still a film after all. It has a story to tell.

    But I don't feel as passionately for this film as you feel against it, so I hear what you're saying. I just don't agree with it. I loved the film!

    I agree that gritty realism in a comic book film seems like a contradiction in terms, and it can certainly be executed poorly, but I'm not against it in principle. I just want it to be a good film. And Logan is a good film! (At least I think so.)
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017
    Well, I'm glad you liked it. smile
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017
    Not seen it. Thanks for the spoilers slant tongue
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017
    Sorry man, I had a spoiler warning on my first comment but forgot to put it on others. :
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.