LEONARD ROSENMAN

I didn't get this...

I agree with Steven here, I'm all for composers speaking his/her mind ( Benny Herrmann certainly did ) but there's no need for a veiled bitch about a fellow professional.

Actually, I think the analogy I draw to the way composers attack each other publicly in the modern classical scene is very much the point, I just don't think you know it. Rosenman is acting like he's in one world, and the standards of behaviour in that world are a lot less demanding than the world of film composing, where the composer better not have a high opinion of himself.

To quote myself:


I'm reminded also of Ingmar Bergman's interview where he spoke ill of the films of Orson Welles and Antonioni as intensely overrated films. Those two did things he couldn't have, and I esteem them as much as I esteem him, but he has a right to a detrimental opinion, and I don't judge him for it. And few people who like these filmmakers would hold Bergman to task to for saying that, because they know they've made similar comparisons between other individuals along the way, sometimes very obnoxiously.

But no, a film composer must be a mouse. Tread softly, offend noone. Don't even say what you really think when you think you could have done better and aren't exactly risking employment by doing so.

And from comments I've heard privately, Goldsmith was not the only that thought that.

Herrmann wasn't too optimistic about Goldsmith either.

James, don't do this... Bernard may have had a very heavy hand, but his music for Hitchcock films is by no means silly!

The great Bernard Herrmann scores: (as film scores, not albums)
Fahrenheit 451 (the heart of Truffaut's cold film)
The Ghost and Mrs Muir (lifts it from awkward comedy into something with a bit of weight)
Psycho (the state of nervous energy prior to Marion's slaying is very much coming from the music - Hitchcock's setups are intentionally prosaic up to the shower scene)
Vertigo (Just don't go there!)
Taxi Driver (such a strange, dark presence, this score has - it doesn't feel perfect, but it's not far)
Citizen Kane (concentrate on the spare orchestrations, so unlike the era it was made in, and the clever use of leitmotifs to slowly bring Rosebud to light)
North by Northwest (a fandango for a spy thriller? Genius!)
The Magnificent Ambersons (the film is tarnished with the Roy Webb rescoring, but what remains is a perfect match)
... and while it's certainly not the musical highlight of the film, his score for the remake of the Man who knew too much fills the gaps around Benjamin's Storm Cloud Cantata beautifully.

Obsession is a bit silly though, I'd agree to that. I haven't seen enough of the others - On Dangerous Ground, The Wrong Man, The Egyptian, Mysterious Island, Sisters, The Bride wore Black - to judge them as scores.

He did make a begrudging remark about Goldsmith having some promise. Something about the context of the remark indicates he was talking through gritted teeth however.

And also 7th Voyage of Sinbad!

Even the gods can be wrong.

Martijn, the history of 20th century composer dialogue is more catty than you realize. I'm not suggesting for a moment that it is appropriate behaviour, but there's a lot more of it in the world that Rosenman wanted to be a part of. Just read any chapter out of Alex Ross's The Rest is Noise other than the Benjamin Britten one and you'll find plenty of evidence for what I'm describing. Composers advancing their own work by denigrating others? Check. Making issues of technique personally vindictive? Check. Jealousy manifesting in public disdain? Check. Why do they get away with it? Because in that world, they are the centre of the universe. You refer to professionalism, but in that world, etiquette doesn't exclude publicly expressing your opinion of your peers in a judgemental fashion. Some, like John Adams or Philip Glass or Reich (always the minimalists!), are very gracious individuals given this tradition of public dispute. Some hold their tongue for years, letting it slip out bit by bit (Bartok in relation to Stravinsky, Carl Vine in relation to Philip Glass).

But others lambast pretty indiscriminately and, to be honest, the way Rosenman talks about Poledouris is pretty tame, particularly if you add in that traditional classical disdain for film music. (Corigliano and Andre Previn, both accomplished film composers, have spoken of many film composers in belittling turns, and Morricone is known to regard any film composer who doesn't orchestrate his own work as no composer. John Barry of late has been as harsh as possible, and he's certainly not a composer without limitations.)

Michael, a bit off-topic here (although when it comes to the subject you're discussing, i too (no surprise either) find my self on the side of Martijn) but could you please fill me in a bit with John Adams and Stephen Michael Reich plz? How is their music? SOmething that could interest another fellow Glass freak perhaps? Is this the John Adams you're talking about btw? http://www.earbox.com/

Fair 'nuff. I am trying to explain, not trying to excuse.

(If I were trying to excuse, then I'd make the point that my remarks over in the James Horner thread would probably smear my career with a veneer of unprofessionalism if I were a composer. Yet I feel safe in making them public when there's nothing at stake for me.)

Thanks! What standard for a starter, non-synth works would you recommend?

thanks mate! will check them out, the first one certainly.

It would be much better if the interest was sparked by his music instead, now wouldn't it?

You mean, people at Maintitles would discuss music which is more than five years old? Are you serious?