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The Dark Knight - Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard
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- CommentAuthordgoldwas
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Don't have the CD so I can't comment on the score presentation on the album (which I believe includes the suites not heard in the film), but as a film, THE DARK KNIGHT is excellent. It has nearly wall-to-wall music, but I felt there were actually less noticeable themes in this one than in BATMAN BEGINS. There's definitely some melodies and motifs, and the Joker stuff is creepy as hell, but for those hoping for a balls-out theme, you're gonna be disappointed.I consider a project a success when Thor says he won't buy it -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
dgoldwas wrote
but for those hoping for a balls-out theme, you're gonna be disappointed.
Thanks for the update, Dan. Much appreciated. And the comment above is another reason why I just can't stand the current state of film music. No big, memorable theme? What the F__K?!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Erik Woods wrote
Marselus wrote
Erik Woods wrote
You've heard Batman Begins, right? I'd say the sequel is much more of the same.... unless Zimmer pulls a At World's End on us or hands over the scoring reigns to Elfman or Goldenthal.
-Erik-
Elfman? Goldenthal? Now that would be boooooring! These two TOGETHER haven´t done anything special / interesting / original / decent in recent years.
Oh wait, there´s that action masterpiece from Goldenthal, SWAT
Oh oh, wait, theres that other great action work by Elfman, The Kingdom!
So you are basing Elfman and Goldenthal's talent on their recent scores? How well... ignorant.
I was referring to their superior scores to the other Batman films. BTW, SWAT was pretty freaking good. It's a mean, nasty, ferocious score that went well above and beyond the crappy film. It's an enormous score filled with Goldenthal's trademark sound infused with a 1970's sensibility.
-Erik-
SWAT is really good, agreed. Better than all-but-two-or-three of Zimmer's scores, in any case. The Kingdom is just about Elfman's worst score I think. Still better than Batman Begins.
Marselus, where are people bashing The Dark Knight? This thread mostly concerns people saying how brilliant it's going to be. At least those expecting it to be awful are basing that on the first score, rather than the rather curious expectation that the score for the sequel is going to be completely and utterly different from the first one. -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
I was not expecting any big memorable theme anyway, I knew Nolan would not let them do that
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- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
DemonStar wrote
I was not expecting any big memorable theme anyway, I knew Nolan would not let them do that
You're quite right. It's a real shame he's like that (well, I think so anyway) and I return to the point that if you want 120 minutes of drone you may just as well pay David Julyan $20k to do it as pay JNH&Hans $1m each to do it. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008 edited
DemonStar wrote
I was not expecting any big memorable theme anyway, I knew Nolan would not let them do that
Another problem with the current state of film music... idiotic directors. It's a comic book movie for Christ sakes.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorSylvos
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008 edited
DemonStar wrote
Why not ask that to someone who has a "Hans Zimmer Death Watch" posted on his website?
Things like this don't help at all. Suppose the man dies, his influence won't. Film Music's re-birth or resurrection watch is more like it.
Southall
He's everywhere, more than half of all films releaed today that gross over $75m are scored by him or someone associated with him, almost always in a very similar style.
I always say, if there's someone to blame for murdering film music, that be the film makers. After all, it is the directors/producers who pick Zimmer and his crew up. Why do they do this? Because they want more of what they did in the past. Hence the same name, same style and stuff attached to every movie.
I never hear people complain about why directors pick RC dudes which is the problem, I always hear them complain why the RC dudes are scoring a certain film. What should they do, resign and ask another non RC composer to come on board? Who would do that? -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Sylvos wrote
Things like this don't help at all. Suppose the man dies, his influence won't. Film Music's re-birth or resurrection watch is more like it.
This simple fact doesn't seem to click with those people. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Sylvos wrote
DemonStar wrote
Why not ask that to someone who has a "Hans Zimmer Death Watch" posted on his website?
Things like this don't help at all. Suppose the man dies, his influence won't. Film Music's re-birth or resurrection watch is more like it.
Some one should have aborted this "baby" before it was re-born!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Some one should have aborted this "baby" before it was re-born!
Did I mention that by the Decree Number 6404.5 any undesired child abortion done under pressure without the legal, written consent of both.. uh... guardians is against the law?
(get the 6404.5 part? )
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- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008 edited
dgoldwas wrote
It has nearly wall-to-wall music
I guess that should lessen its suffering from the lack of a strong theme... at least for me.
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- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
DemonStar wrote
dgoldwas wrote
It has nearly wall-to-wall music
I guess that should save it from the lack of a strong theme... at least for me.
Sonic wallpaper rarely works. Most of the time less is more.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Erik Woods wrote
DemonStar wrote
dgoldwas wrote
It has nearly wall-to-wall music
I guess that should save it from the lack of a strong theme... at least for me.
Sonic wallpaper rarely works. Most of the time less is more.
-Erik-
Yeah, but I hope HZ-JNH tried their best to help it fit the movie well even without a strong theme. -
- CommentAuthorSylvos
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008 edited
Well, the way I see it, those who like Zimmer will continue to support him, and naturally those who hate him will carry on with the bashing. None of what we say here may change a thing. It won't alter H-Z's birth/death time, nor will it modify that film music resurrection date. So let's put an end to it... on this board at least. -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Sylvos wrote
So let's put an end to it... on this board at least.
Thanks for that! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
DemonStar wrote
Sylvos wrote
So let's put an end to it... on this board at least.
Thanks for that!
Where's the fun in that?
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Where's the fun in that?
IMHO, that topic's neither fun nor of any use. Better utilise that time playing a nice John Williams score, that's more fun
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- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
DemonStar wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Where's the fun in that?
IMHO, that topic's neither fun nor of any use.
Bah! It's always fun!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Erik Woods wrote
DemonStar wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Where's the fun in that?
IMHO, that topic's neither fun nor of any use.
Bah! It's always fun!
-Erik-
Ok... enjoy! I'm outta here
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- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
DemonStar wrote
Erik Woods wrote
DemonStar wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Where's the fun in that?
IMHO, that topic's neither fun nor of any use.
Bah! It's always fun!
-Erik-
Ok... enjoy! I'm outta here
Cya!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Erik Woods wrote
Marselus wrote
Erik Woods wrote
You've heard Batman Begins, right? I'd say the sequel is much more of the same.... unless Zimmer pulls a At World's End on us or hands over the scoring reigns to Elfman or Goldenthal.
-Erik-
Elfman? Goldenthal? Now that would be boooooring! These two TOGETHER haven´t done anything special / interesting / original / decent in recent years.
Oh wait, there´s that action masterpiece from Goldenthal, SWAT Oh oh, wait, theres that other great action work by Elfman, The Kingdom!
So you are basing Elfman and Goldenthal's talent on their recent scores? How well... ignorant.
I was referring to their superior scores to the other Batman films. BTW, SWAT was pretty freaking good. It's a mean, nasty, ferocious score that went well above and beyond the crappy film. It's an enormous score filled with Goldenthal's trademark sound infused with a 1970's sensibility.
-Erik-
Don't know about Elfman, but for Goldenthal i am sure that no matter how much i like some of Zimmer's work, he could never even scratch Goldenthal's shoes when it comes to superior film music writing.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008 edited
Erik Woods wrote
DemonStar wrote
I was not expecting any big memorable theme anyway, I knew Nolan would not let them do that
Another problem with the current state of film music... idiotic directors. It's a comic book movie for Christ sakes.
-Erik-
Well, as much as i like his work, it's pretty obvious that Nolan's taking himself too seriously.
As for the topic getting off-topic concerns, it is not. All opinions are welcomed to be heard. ModeratorCat has spoken.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Christodoulides wrote
As for the topic getting off-topic concerns, it is not. All opinions are welcomed to be heard. ModeratorCat has spoken.
Aye aye, Captain! :salute:
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- CommentAuthordgoldwas
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Erik Woods wrote
No big, memorable theme? What the F__K?!
As much as I like big memorable themes, not every film or film score NEEDS one. And the lack of one doesn't automatically make it a bad score.
(I'm speaking in generalities here, and not specifically about THE DARK KNIGHT.) You should blame the filmmakers for the lack of a theme; it's not like composers are incapable of coming up with great thematic material, but usually would eschew any theme at the direction of the filmmakers.
At least that's been my experience.....
DemonStar wrote
I was not expecting any big memorable theme anyway, I knew Nolan would not let them do that
Exactly.
Erik Woods wrote
Sonic wallpaper rarely works. Most of the time less is more.
Oh it's hardly sonic wallpaper. Just because it's wall-to-wall doesn't make it "sonic wallpaper".
It might help to see THE DARK KNIGHT before arguing over the merits of the music and how it works in the film.
DanI consider a project a success when Thor says he won't buy it -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008 edited
dgoldwas wrote
Erik Woods wrote
No big, memorable theme? What the F__K?!
As much as I like big memorable themes, not every film or film score NEEDS one. And the lack of one doesn't automatically make it a bad score.
Comic book films DO!
Erik Woods wrote
Sonic wallpaper rarely works. Most of the time less is more.
dgoldwas wrote
Oh it's hardly sonic wallpaper. Just because it's wall-to-wall doesn't make it "sonic wallpaper".
It might help to see THE DARK KNIGHT before arguing over the merits of the music and how it works in the film.
Dan
I was making a general comment, Dan. But based on the sonic wallpaper in most of Nolan's films, why would this one be any different?
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
dgoldwas wrote
(I'm speaking in generalities here, and not specifically about THE DARK KNIGHT.) You should blame the filmmakers for the lack of a theme; it's not like composers are incapable of coming up with great thematic material, but usually would eschew any theme at the direction of the filmmakers.
I agree with this to a certain point but you can't place all the blame on the filmmakers.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
BTW, here is Zimmer and JNH discussing the lack of a theme in the Batman scores from the soundtrack.net interview.
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HZ: It's something that occurred to me. I have a feeling that out there in the world, there are people waiting for James and me to "come to our senses" and stop this dark nonsense with the iconic two-note thing and write a happy jolly theme like the old Batman. You know, like the Danny Elfman one. It ain't gonna happen. Because this is not the world we're in. This is not the character we're doing. It's not the movies we're doing. They just need to get over that. For our Batman, it would just be wrong.
JNH: It would give you too much information about this character, which is not true. It would be misinformation. When you assign a heroic theme to something, some kind of a tune, you're giving away a lot of information that may or may not be true about this guy. We still don't really know who Batman is yet. Very complex, he's constantly evolving that character. He doesn't know who he is. We feel that it's much stronger to say less, musically, about him and let his character sort of speak for himself.
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IMHO, this is utter nonsense. They are over analyzing it. You know, all on-screen "super" heroes are complex, most of them get wonderful and fully developed themes and they work brilliantly... including Elfman's classic. All due respect to James Newton Howard but I personally think his reasoning is BS. I mean, why write music at all? It's manipulating our emotions and telling us how to feel. It that too complex for Nolan's Batman?
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Erik Woods wrote
BTW, here is Zimmer and JNH discussing the lack of a theme in the Batman scores from the soundtrack.net interview.
etc.....
-Erik-
I agree totally. I'm sure they're not trying to come accross like it, but Zimmer and JNH sound like they couldn't be arsed to score something properly and that over-analysing it to a stupid point like this makes it ok...
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- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
James Newton Howard said
We feel that it's much stronger to say less, musically, about him and let his character sort of speak for himself.
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And there, ladies and gents, is JNH showing why most modern film music is so crap: It's better to write music that says nothing than music that says something. No it isn't, it's better to fuck off and let people with something to say write the music. -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 2nd 2008
Boy; is it going to be a very heated summer or what ??!Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.