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The Dark Knight - Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard
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- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008 edited
Bregt wrote
And wooow, like over 70 posts!?
Imagine what will happen when it gets released
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Btw, don't know if he wants to participate in this, but i am deeply interested in what Michael things of all that's been discussed so far about this subject.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthordgoldwas
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
From that news item about the live performance: "Zimmer and Howard will be signing copies of the soundtrack at Virgin Megastores in New York on Tuesday, July 15, in Times Square at 7pm, and in Los Angeles on Wednesday, July 16, at Hollywood and Highland, also at 7pm."I consider a project a success when Thor says he won't buy it -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008 edited
Going to go a bit off topic a bit but still relevant to the re-birth or re-vision of a film franchise and the use of music.
One film franchise that got it right completely (and as a film Batman Begins is friggin' awesome) was James Bond and Casino Royale. They threw out the camp and made a deadly serious action film yet David Arnold was still able to keep that classic James Bond sound and theme (although used in it's complete form at the end of the film) while at the same time updating the sound with his electronics and a more contemporary orchestral score. Still, the score felt like Bond score and the theme, even though 40 years old and very campy, didn't feel out of place and didn't take away from the "seriousness" of the film.
So, that's why I think Elfman's theme would have worked in the NEW more serious Batman film... if used at the right moments to convey the right emotion.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
If Martin Campbell did with Bond what Nolan did for Batman, they'd hang him. I think Bond is a much more no-go territory than Batman.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Going to go a bit off topic a bit but still relevant to the re-birth or re-vision of a film franchise and the use of music.
One film franchise that got it right completely (and as a film Batman Begins is friggin' awesome) was James Bond and Casino Royale. They threw out the camp and made a deadly serious action film yet David Arnold was still able to keep that classic James Bond sound and theme (although used in it's complete form at the end of the film) while at the same time updating the sound with his electronics and a more contemporary orchestral score. Still, the score felt like Bond score and the theme, even though 40 years old and very campy, didn't feel out of place and didn't take away from the "seriousness" of the film.
So, that's why I think Elfman's theme would have worked in the NEW more serious Batman film... if used at the right moments to convey the right emotion.
-Erik-
Couldn't agree more.
I would say Nolan knows a lot about cinema... except one vital part of it. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Steven wrote
Couldn't agree more.
I would say Nolan knows a lot about cinema... except one vital part of it.
Bin-go!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Christodoulides wrote
If Martin Campbell did with Bond what Nolan did for Batman, they'd hang him. I think Bond is a much more no-go territory than Batman.
It's not the first time the series go more serious too. The coming-to-their-senses thing that happened after the absurd Die Another Day happened once with Roger Moore, though I am not sure which movie came before For Your Eyes Only.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
I mean entirely shifting it in all aspects, music included.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorMatt C
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Are you referring to Octopussy? That's pretty much the Moore Bond film the majority hate, alongside Moonraker.
Erik, what pieces of Batman score would you plan on using to edit to the Tumbler chase and/or the climatic chase scene for BB? I'd love to see the end result on Youtube.http://unsungfilmscores.blogspot.com/ -- My film/TV/game score review blog -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
dgoldwas wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Oh please! Just look at the vast majority of comic book films. Most of theme have great themes or at least some sort of thematic material. Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, The Phantom, The Shadow, Fantastic Four, The Punisher, Hellboy, The Flash, X-Men, etc, etc, etc.
Yes, I'm aware that most comic book films have thematic scores. That hardly means that they all NEED one. And if a comic book movie doesn't have a thematic score - and yet the score STILL WORKS FOR THE FILM - then where's the crime? That was my point.
The age-old point - the difference between something that "works for the film" and something that actually improves it, which is what film music used to aim for. -
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
It all depends on the point of view though. You can IMPROVE a movie with atmospheric scoring too. All is about whether the composer (and director) pick the right accent or not. Nolan goes with the atmosphere.http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
PawelStroinski wrote
Erik, what pieces of Batman score would you plan on using to edit to the Tumbler chase and/or the climatic chase scene for BB? I'd love to see the end result on Youtube.
Don't know yet. Most likely any of the action cues.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorfranz_conrad
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Southall wrote
dgoldwas wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Oh please! Just look at the vast majority of comic book films. Most of theme have great themes or at least some sort of thematic material. Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, The Phantom, The Shadow, Fantastic Four, The Punisher, Hellboy, The Flash, X-Men, etc, etc, etc.
Yes, I'm aware that most comic book films have thematic scores. That hardly means that they all NEED one. And if a comic book movie doesn't have a thematic score - and yet the score STILL WORKS FOR THE FILM - then where's the crime? That was my point.
The age-old point - the difference between something that "works for the film" and something that actually improves it, which is what film music used to aim for.
The thing is, in BATMAN BEGINS, Batman is not treated like a legendary hero. So some ascending anthem derived from Wagner's Siegfriend motif is probably putting the wrong emphasis on the story. I do agree that if you're going to get an atmospheric score, you can find someone better than Hans Zimmer and Newton Howard to do it. Elliot Goldenthal's HEAT score would have been a fine foundation for a score to BATMAN BEGINS, I reckon.A butterfly thinks therefore I am -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Erik Woods wrote
PawelStroinski wrote
Erik, what pieces of Batman score would you plan on using to edit to the Tumbler chase and/or the climatic chase scene for BB? I'd love to see the end result on Youtube.
Don't know yet. Most likely any of the action cues.
-Erik-
Just to let you know... I've imported the Tumbler Chase into Final Cut and started adding Elfman's material and I'm getting GOOSEBUMPS hearing Elfman's material over this. For some it might not work but to me this is MOVIE MAGIC!!!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
franz_conrad wrote
Southall wrote
dgoldwas wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Oh please! Just look at the vast majority of comic book films. Most of theme have great themes or at least some sort of thematic material. Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, The Phantom, The Shadow, Fantastic Four, The Punisher, Hellboy, The Flash, X-Men, etc, etc, etc.
Yes, I'm aware that most comic book films have thematic scores. That hardly means that they all NEED one. And if a comic book movie doesn't have a thematic score - and yet the score STILL WORKS FOR THE FILM - then where's the crime? That was my point.
The age-old point - the difference between something that "works for the film" and something that actually improves it, which is what film music used to aim for.
The thing is, in BATMAN BEGINS, Batman is not treated like a legendary hero. So some ascending anthem derived from Wagner's Siegfriend motif is probably putting the wrong emphasis on the story. I do agree that if you're going to get an atmospheric score, you can find someone better than Hans Zimmer and Newton Howard to do it. Elliot Goldenthal's HEAT score would have been a fine foundation for a score to BATMAN BEGINS, I reckon.
But as as been mentioned, these things can be over-analysed to the point that you could justify having no music at all! (Although valid, logical points nonetheless.)
I for one am with Erik on this one, a proper THEME for the new Batman would be a welcome improvement on an otherwise excellent refurbished franchise. -
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Erik Woods wrote
One film franchise that got it right completely (and as a film Batman Begins is friggin' awesome) was James Bond and Casino Royale. They threw out the camp and made a deadly serious action film yet David Arnold was still able to keep that classic James Bond sound and theme (although used in it's complete form at the end of the film) while at the same time updating the sound with his electronics and a more contemporary orchestral score. Still, the score felt like Bond score and the theme, even though 40 years old and very campy, didn't feel out of place and didn't take away from the "seriousness" of the film.
So, that's why I think Elfman's theme would have worked in the NEW more serious Batman film... if used at the right moments to convey the right emotion.
-Erik-
James Bond was never really "camp". Sure there were the Roger Moore years, but the music did reflect that campiness. For the David Arnold scored movies, the movies were largely serious, or overly serious (TWINE, anyone?) and overblown affairs, and yet, David scored it all so seriously to match. I hear the same people who hates Hans Zimmer's music complain about the distinct sameness... Judging the result, it wasn't much of a stretch for him to do Casino Royale in the same vein.
As much as I like the first Batman movie and Elfman's score for the movie, they were intrinsically different than Nolan's and Zimmer/Howard's effort. Burton's Victorian Gothic Batman isn't on the same playing field as Nolan's Post Modern masked vigilante. We're talking about characters with emotional and psychological angst playing against the modern societal themes, ethical issues and moral dilemmas. The grand Wagnerian melody doesn't fit this kind of movie. To use it is to imply that both movie world are connected, and we all know that they're not. -
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Twine? What's string got to do with anything? -
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Steven wrote an obvious classically inspired THEME for the new Batman would be a welcome improvement on an otherwise excellent refurbished franchise.
There, I fixed your comment to properly reflect what I think you're really trying to say. -
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
franz_conrad wrote
Elliot Goldenthal's HEAT score would have been a fine foundation for a score to BATMAN BEGINS, I reckon.
Yeah, cause we all need another reason for people to complain about how electric guitars and rock rhythms doesn't work and some thing orchestral like Elfman's theme would have worked like gangbuster. -
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008 edited
lp wrote
Steven wrote an obvious classically inspired THEME for the new Batman would be a welcome improvement on an otherwise excellent refurbished franchise.
There, I fixed your comment to properly reflect what I think you're really trying to say.
I presume most can read between the lines when we're talking about THEMES (in capitals) thank you very much, especially for a superhero. I new exactly what I was saying.
Yes, it has a theme, of course it does... just not a very good one. -
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
lp wrote:
(The World Is Not Enough, anyone?)
There, I fixed your comment to properly reflect what I think you're really trying to say. -
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Steven wrote
Yes, it has a theme, of course it does... just not a very good one.
Since you didn't watch the movie. -
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Steven wrote
lp wrote:
(The World Is Not Enough, anyone?)
There, I fixed your comment to properly reflect what I think you're really trying to say.
Thanks for assuming that people who watches the James Bond movies don't know what an acronym is. -
- CommentAuthorfranz_conrad
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
lp wrote
franz_conrad wrote
Elliot Goldenthal's HEAT score would have been a fine foundation for a score to BATMAN BEGINS, I reckon.
Yeah, cause we all need another reason for people to complain about how electric guitars and rock rhythms doesn't work and some thing orchestral like Elfman's theme would have worked like gangbuster.
I'm just saying what would have also worked for me. If you want to go with an atmospheric approach, go with a very good one.A butterfly thinks therefore I am -
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008 edited
franz_conrad wrote
lp wrote
franz_conrad wrote
Elliot Goldenthal's HEAT score would have been a fine foundation for a score to BATMAN BEGINS, I reckon.
Yeah, cause we all need another reason for people to complain about how electric guitars and rock rhythms doesn't work and some thing orchestral like Elfman's theme would have worked like gangbuster.
I'm just saying what would have also worked for me. If you want to go with an atmospheric approach, go with a very good one.
Yeah, I understand. Though I think it's the various instrumental contributions that really contributed to the success of the movie and less about Elliot's compositions. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008 edited
Ok... I gave it a shot. Now, I only played around with this for an hour or so. Liam has a fever so I've been taking care of him for the majority of the evening. I'm going to bed soon so I wanted to have something up before I started counting sheep.
This is far from perfect but I'm really digging a more traditional score with the awesome viz from the film. The edits are really dirty and if I spent some more time with the scene I probably could have done better with the sync hits. I also did some quick and really dirty fades for some of the dialog.
BATMAN BEGINS with selected from Danny Elfman's BATMAN score | 44.5 MG
http://www.dillusions.net/erik/clips/bb_redux.mp4
Enjoy!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
Christodoulides wrote
Erik, you didn't even like the final long chase / action cue over the train fight sequence? That worked Wonders in the film.
And that cue isn't even released on the soundtrack...
-
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008
BUMP!
BATMAN BEGINS with selected from Danny Elfman's BATMAN score | 44.5 MG
http://www.dillusions.net/erik/clips/bb_redux.mp4
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 3rd 2008 edited
Good job on the edit. It's made the chase more heroic, and retains the propulsiveness of the scene. But it's pretty much an easy choice to rescore the chase scene.
I thought you were going to go for the dramatic sequences where grand statements of Elfman's theme was suppose to rival the original. That's what all the haters were bitching about .