food food food.........

Well, EXCUSE me, what are we discussing all day here? Don't you think that the HOW affects the WHAT AND WHY of the whole thing and that the two are strongly connected with one another? How did you think they slaughter the pets?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPIsTKpAoE4

So, you're saying this as well?

It's OK to kill cats and dogs for food since they're not being tortured ?

I'd appreciate a direct answer with a few words. It's a simple question.

I read that the first time. You're avoiding a direct answer in a sideways, swart manner.

I feel your pain Martijn, I do.

(Isn't it nice to have someone say that? )

No, I think yo'll find that's just your back.

My opinion is that it's repulsive. Disgusting. But I have to say, I've seen some stuff about McDonald's "100% beef" hamburgers and the condition of the animals that make those - and of course the conditions of battery chickens, particularly in Eastern Europe - and they made me feel the same.

Well, rather that than cats and dogs.

Well said Jon.

I'd like to hear Ravi's take on this ( if he's willing? ) coming from India where the cow is a sacred animal.

3 pages of posts while I was sleeping for 6 hours, and no comment on my previous post?

Joking aside, I always wanted to exchange opinions on this issue with people with different cultural backgrounds.
I don't have many social contacts in my offline life. Most of my friends are Japanese, belong to the same department (biology), or the same laboratory (animal ecology). And many of them have similar opinions to mine. So I thought this is a good chance to hear and give each other's opinions, in a mature and friendly way.

---
Probably, what Jon simply said in his two posts above represents what I originally wanted to say:




Also, as I said yesterday (your morning ), I'd like to comment on the historical backgrounds of dogs and cats, which Demetris' opinion seems to be based on. But other members didn't mention it so much, yet. I need a little more time to write about it. Please wait



P.S. So, nobody here have had a chance to visit MOS Burger in Japan?
http://www.japaninyourpalm.com/Restaura … burger.htm
(MOS don't use any dog meat for their hot dogs. )

Wow, a lot has been written here. Too much to reply to.

One thing I missed in the whole argument is when cows, pigs and chicken are considered pets and then still are slaughtered for consumption. I'm not talking about the huge bio industry but about small farmers. Farm children love their rabbits, cows, goats and pigs, they even give them names. Still one day they end up on their plates.

Pets is perhaps not the right word, because their destination is clear from the beginning (and differs from the destination of a pet like cat or dog). Still the farmer can feel affection towards the animals. And some call their outside farm animals pets too.

I am not really making a point, I'm just wondering myself where the line is drawn, what a pet is, what affection towards an animal means...

By the way, I too think we should be more worried about the 'how' of killing animals. The conditions and the bio industry are quite horrible. The pig or cow at the small farm is probably best of. Lives the life of a pet, with good food and love and care.

You know, it's interesting to note that i've only had this kind of reactions from you people. It's a both a matter of personal character (i'm talking about me and how i express my beliefs) but also a matter of cultural differences as well as NOT FACING the other party physically, it's logical that such misunderstandings will occur.

For instance, i can understand the reactions you people carry here to my arguments and the manner i express them, but i never had a similar problem to any of my countless social interactions and similar placement of my arguments in discussions here, in Greece. I am not criticizing anyone and i think it's pretty ridiculous to think otherwise, i am rather making a general observation. Where i grew up and where i live, it's a rather used phenomenon for people to express their views openly, directly and even radically, like I find myself doing some times, and other people not actually being offended by the words. On the other hand and at the same time, i had numerous negative reactions to the way i express myself coming from people who are obviously not Greeks nor Cypriots. Most of the times those reactions are web-based though so that further reinforces my argument on the lack of physical interaction contributing to the negative side of things even more.

I am not saying i am right and you're wrong, i never do. It just hurts me that you, Steven, out of everyone else, seem (and i might be wrong here, so please excuse me if i am and perhaps explain me why i'm wrong) to be waiting around the corner to be insulted by something i'd say and jump down my throat with the usual argument of me being ignorant (and its variations) whilst i never direct any insults towards you or any of you here; if i've done such in the past without understanding it, please say so. It's like you, specifically, LOOK OUT to be offended by me. I mean everybody reads and replies to what i write, but rarely other people react the same way you do, they only do as such when i push too, as what happened with Martijn and on a lesser degree - Southall, here. And i don't blame them.

But i have difficulties understanding your position; you didn't participate in the discussion, but you still felt the need to jump down and throw something insulting about me and my arguments. And you've done it in the same fashion with other people and discussions as well, in the past, in this forum. I want to believe that you like to tease people and / or throw words and phrases to test their reactions, without that meaning you don't actually agree what you write.

Bottom-line: i am who i am; i accept everyone else, i never insult anyone on purpose or direct insults or accusations and other people seem to react in a similar way to my presence, light, teasing and humorous most of the times, except when i push, like here. You, on the other hand, seem 90% offended, annoyed or disturbed from my presence. Either i am doing something very wrong, or you have issues with me that you should tell me once and for all 'cause is getting quite tiring. I have nothing bitter against you nor do i want to or wish to. And this is where i want to end all this.

I wouldn't blame you if you did get offended

On your other question, yes, you can say so. I can accept many of the points you all raised, but i believe that everyone should STOP at cats and dogs, for the reasons i explained. Forget the word PETS, make that CATS AND DOGS. They are on a completely different level for me and i should have make it clearer right from the beginning.

AT LAST!