register

  • Categories

Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

 

OJ Simpson goes to Jail

Off Topic » OJ Simpson goes to Jail (Posts 31 to 60 of 140)

  1. <
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. >
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008 edited
    Actually, I know exactly what modern Christianity is like these days, at least moderate Christianity here in England. I've been to a few "church" meetings at uni myself because a friend who goes has managed to drag me along a couple of times.
  2. There's as many types of Christianities about as there are denominations and nationalities. Key emphases prevail, but each people and tradition place different emphases on both core and non-core issues.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008 edited
    My experience with this particular group of university student Christians was that they were pretty adamant on this whole sense of community, love and friendship (and all the rest of that malarkey) all centered around their faith, which is what brings them together in the first place. Very nice, very pleasant. I just wish people could get all that without resorting to believing in fairy tales. I felt very uneasy when they finally came to expressing their love of Jesus... it creeps me out if I'm honest. I sat there dumbfounded at what I was hearing.
  4. That's understandable. I can see why it would look strange for someone to say they loved something passionately that you knew for a fact didn't exist.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthoromaha
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    fact though?
    it can be proven.
    but I see where you guys are coming from.

    wink
  6. From Steven's perspective, the existence of a God is an unprovable, and therefore cannot be asserted as fact. I'm just being empathetic. As someone who does believe in God, the whole language of loving Jesus feels quite natural to me. But I can understand how unusual it must seem from the outside.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthoromaha
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    franz_conrad wrote
    From Steven's perspective, the existence of a God is an unprovable, and therefore cannot be asserted as fact. I'm just being empathetic. As someone who does believe in God, the whole language of loving Jesus feels quite natural to me. But I can understand how unusual it must seem from the outside.


    ah, I agree completely.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    I like how refreshingly and disarmingly understanding you are Michael!

    If I did believe in the Christian God, I'd probably live each day in fear. If God is capable of loving me, then He'd probably also be capable of hating me. I'd find that infinitely scary. But then that's from a non-Christian, non-religious point of view. I'm sure if I were religious, I wouldn't concern myself with such a thought. wink
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008 edited
    omaha wrote
    fact though?
    it can be proven.
    but I see where you guys are coming from.

    wink


    He meant fact from my point of view. I think it's safe to say that it's a fact that Jesus was a real man who lived around 2000 years ago. It's also safe to say that it's a fact that he was crucified. These things are indeed provable. But if you can prove to me without resorting to faith that he was born of a virgin and resurrected from his death, then I will give you a rather large shiny penny for your troubles. Really, I left it in some Coke all day. Very shiny indeed.
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    Steven wrote
    I like how refreshingly and disarmingly understanding you are Michael!

    If I did believe in the Christian God, I'd probably live each day in fear. If God is capable of loving me, then He'd probably also be capable of hating me. I'd find that infinitely scary. But then that's from a non-Christian, non-religious point of view. I'm sure if I were religious, I wouldn't concern myself with such a thought. wink

    I find the expression "good, decent God-fearing man" completely at odds. Why do people consider "God-fearing" a quality??? If you fear God it's because you've done something horrible that you're afraid of being trialed for. If you really are a good, decent person, then you should have nothing to fear from God, right? Personally I make out "God-fearing" to be a synonym for "insecure."
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008 edited
    Do many religious people refer to their own as 'God fearing' I wonder? I've always thought it was a saying used by non-religious people? I could be wrong.
    •  
      CommentAuthoromaha
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    Steven wrote
    omaha wrote
    fact though?
    it can be proven.
    but I see where you guys are coming from.

    wink


    He meant fact from my point of view. I think it's safe to say that it's a fact that Jesus was a real man who lived around 2000 years ago. It's also safe to say that it's a fact that he was crucified. These things are indeed provable. But if you can prove to me without resorting to faith that he was born of a virgin and resurrected from his death, then I will give you a rather large shiny penny for your troubles. Really, I left it in some Coke all day. Very shiny indeed.


    shocked
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    Steven wrote
    Do many religious people refer to their own as 'God fearing' I wonder? I've always thought it was a saying used by non-religious people? I could be wrong.

    I dunno. I just keep hearing the expression "I was raised by my father to be a good, decent God-fearing citizen..." Implying it's somehow a good thing. Very depressingly Nietzsche-like if you ask me.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
  14. God-fearing (Latin Deus timens) is the way Job is defined in his respective book. There was a man in land Hus who feared God..
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008 edited
    Wouldn't that be DeuM timens?
    God being the object rather than the subject?

    That aside, I was wondering where the phrase originated, and that has now been answered.
    Thanks, Pawel. smile
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  16. It's a translation of Hebrew Nira elohim, not sure about the reading of "nira", mind you though. I would have to ask my Israeli friends.

    I am pretty sure that Vulgate has Deus timens, I had to look through the Latin translation for my master thesis, where Job was one of the most important books to my interpretation.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    Well, it's a grammar issue, not a translation one: Deus timens literally means "God who is fearing" (God as subject), so it just makes little sense that way. Deum timens would carry the translation as presumably meant in Job: "fearing God" (God as object).

    However, it may be interesting to find the literal translation of Nira Elohim, as I too though Elohim is the subject form (though my knowledge of Hebrew grammar and conjugation is nigh-nonexistant). And THAT could have VERY interesting repercussions on the whole portrayal of God: is God fearFUL...or is God fearING?

    (Though I doubt we have accidentally stumbled upon something here that might put the whole of Judeo-christianity on its head. wink )
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  18. Well, take into account that St. Jerome didn't use the Ciceronian Latin grammar. He wanted to do something similar to what the Evangelists did for the gospels - they used the common (koine) Greek rather than the literary one. As far as I know (and as far as my research goes, really) Jerome wanted to write it in known, common Latin, which is Latin that doesn't follow exactly the rules of the Classical Latin, also it was written in 4th Century.

    It's also perfectly possible due to changes that happened to Latin in the course of years, like some grammar forms were changed by the times of Middle Ages, some stuff changed A LOT. Let me tell you of one word, quite vulgar in Classical Latin and nice in Medieval:

    Pedicator - in Classical Latin it would be "the one who takes it from behind", very offensive

    in Medieval Latin? - The one who makes a pilgrimage BY FOOT (per pedes). So yes, it's perfectly possible bunny
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008 edited
    Ahhh, but the change of a word's definition doesn't equate to throwing grammar overboard! And this is actually a BIGGIE! It changes the COMPLETE meaning of the phrase. That aside, I can't remember ever having heard of noun declinatons not being adhered to in Latin (common, medieval or classic), except by mistake (obviously).

    the most noted difference between common Latin and classic Latin I though were the inclusion of some extra vowels, and the pronunciation. NOT the actual grammatical rules (well, at least not for another 800 years or so after St. Jerome smile )
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    Heh. biggrin
    I love it when I'm right.

    http://www.speedbible.com/vulgate/B44C010.htm

    (Interestingly I can find some text references to "religiosus et timens deus", which wold suggest that someone made a copying error which later has been corrected, OR that ol' Jerome had a rather late but prodigious editor. wink
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  21. Steven wrote
    I like how refreshingly and disarmingly understanding you are Michael!


    shame

    smile

    The discussion of God-fearing is quite interesting. Whatever the grammatical character of the phrase, the word fear is being used hear in a non-pejorative sense whenever a modern Christian describes themselves as God-fearing. There are of course many who worship God genuinely out of fear in the negative sense (often goaded by other self-righteous figures), but there are many types of fear, just as there are many types of love. There is a love for a partner, and the love of a brother, the love of a comrade, and so too, the fear of death, the fear of waking up the cat, the fear of public speaking, the fear of God. In the same way, God is sometimes described as terrible, an adjective that strikes many as odd who have only heard the word used for less sacred matters.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  22. Cus emek. Maybe the edition I worked on is wrong? The same is in Job!
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    Did I just singlehandedly destroy your thesis, Pawel? sad

    franz_conrad wrote
    In the same way, God is sometimes described as terrible, an adjective that strikes many as odd who have only heard the word used for less sacred matters.


    Interestingly while the phrase IS used in other languages (my own reference being Dutch, obviously), it is a very myopic and old fashioned one in use almost exclusively with the strictest, least flexible and openminded Christian branches.

    The phrase seems to be in use a lot more among the anglophone world, which would beg further investigation as to its origin as more or less the "standard" epiteth for someone who is a good Christian!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  24. No, you didn't, Martijn. I luckily didn't refer to the first chapter biggrin
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  25. Martijn wrote
    The phrase seems to be in use a lot more among the anglophone world, which would beg further investigation as to its origin as more or less the "standard" epiteth for someone who is a good Christian!


    The phrase being 'terrible' or 'God-fearing'? I'm assuming the latter, from the context?
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    Sorry, yeah. "God-fearing", indeed.

    "Terrible" is very much out of use.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Pedicator - in Classical Latin it would be "the one who takes it from behind", very offensive

    LMAO!!! Wow. I think I'll start calling people Pedicators from now on. moon


    FearFUL God vs. FearING God??? Wow, that is indeed quite a drastic difference in interpretation. It's like the old "spare the rod, spoil the child" thing.

    Or "pretty little girl school."
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    •  
      CommentAuthoromaha
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    I see the fearing God phrase more as a form of respect.

    In the christian belief he is the God of the heavens and universe. In another sense, one strong and powerful dude.

    The phrase kind of says the person believes in God because he knows his evil deeds will be met with a form of punishment. The person does not go out and do whatever they want cause they know this. Hence, they kind of fear God because they know he is just.

    I know I probably just explained the same thing over and over. It is one of those things that is hard to describe. dizzy
    •  
      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    Someone, I forget who, is credited with the following phrase: "I have learned through philosophy that I do out of morality what others do out of fear of the law."

    If you do good out of fear of God alone then there's nothing wrong with your faith, but I sincerely question your human nature... slant
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    •  
      CommentAuthoromaha
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2008
    That is not why Christians do good though. They do good out of the love of serving God and the love of others. Christians are not supposed to live in fear. I don't really agree with the god fearing phrase other than a sign of respect of acknowledging who God is.

31 to 60 of 140

  1. <
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. 5
  7. >