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HENRY JACKMAN
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- CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012 edited
Did I miss something? Who played both Zorro and Puss? I don´t find the similarities in those scores odd at all. -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012 edited
I'm with Matt, actually.
I love Horner's strong, energetic take on Zorro, I love Jackman's joyful and upbeat take on Puss.
All they have in common to my ears are a strong Spanish flavour (which, again, I love).
But to me they're about as similar as the Andalusian flavours in Rozsa's El Cid and Newman's Captain Of Castille: if you've heard one flamenco buléria (which is the type of piece roughly 90% of 'stereotypical Spanish, Hollywood style' is based upon) you've pretty much heard them all (which in no way stops me from enjoying them!)'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Martijn wrote
I'm with Matt, actually.
Always the tone of surprise...I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
I finally (don't know what it took me so long) see how the first 3 notes of the Zorro melody and the Puss in Boots melody are basically the same 3 notes...and the next phrase is very similar too...but the timings of the notes are so different that it doesn't feel like the same theme to me. Nonetheless I can now better see where Erik is coming from by saying he stuck very close to the temp track...although in this case that almost works out to a compliment because its something unusual to be able to stick so close to the temp track and yet still create something that can legitimately stand on its own merits (IMO).I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012 edited
All you have to do is listen to that opening track in Puss and then The Plaza of Execution from The Mask of Zorro. The frame work for Jackman's score is all in that piece, minus the love theme which Jackman also uses as the basis of his own at the 27 second mark of "A Bad Kitty."
However, the score is still ridiculously enjoyable and Jackman does write some striking material of his own as well.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Scribe wrote
Martijn wrote
I'm with Matt, actually.
Always the tone of surprise...
<insert tone of confusion>
Wut?
'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Martijn wrote
Scribe wrote
Always the tone of surprise...
<insert tone of confusion>
Wut?
Its a quote from Harry Potter where they compliment Ron in a surprised tone because he doesn't usually do anything impressive...
So I was hijacking the sentiment for this situation in which you added the word "actually" as if its surprising that anyone would agree with me since I usually have weird opinions...
I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Martijn wrote
I'm with Matt, actually.
I love Horner's strong, energetic take on Zorro, I love Jackman's joyful and upbeat take on Puss.
All they have in common to my ears are a strong Spanish flavour (which, again, I love).
But to me they're about as similar as the Andalusian flavours in Rozsa's El Cid and Newman's Captain Of Castille: if you've heard one flamenco buléria (which is the type of piece roughly 90% of 'stereotypical Spanish, Hollywood style' is based upon) you've pretty much heard them all (which in no way stops me from enjoying them!)
Exactly. Spanish-flavored music is there, long before Horner
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
That's not the point. It's how Horner wrote HIS Spanish style music which Jackman clearly aped.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Demetris wrote
Martijn wrote
I'm with Matt, actually.
I love Horner's strong, energetic take on Zorro, I love Jackman's joyful and upbeat take on Puss.
All they have in common to my ears are a strong Spanish flavour (which, again, I love).
But to me they're about as similar as the Andalusian flavours in Rozsa's El Cid and Newman's Captain Of Castille: if you've heard one flamenco buléria (which is the type of piece roughly 90% of 'stereotypical Spanish, Hollywood style' is based upon) you've pretty much heard them all (which in no way stops me from enjoying them!)
Exactly. Spanish-flavored music is there, long before Horner
Music performed by a symphony orchestra and choir was there long before Elliot Goldenthal but it doesn't mean 300 doesn't rip off Titus. -
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
I still don't get it Erik. You don't use derogatory terms like "aped" and "ripped off" when talking about Joel McNeely even though everything he does sounds almost exactly like John Williams! What's the difference here? At least Jackman has demonstrated the ability to write in a whole bunch of different styles, from Puss in Boots to Winnie the Pooh to synth-fests like Man on a Ledge...whereas McNeely sounds almost exactly the same every time he writes a score!
(and I love McNeely by the way)I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012 edited
Scribe wrote
I still don't get it Erik. You don't use derogatory terms like "aped" and "ripped off" when talking about Joel McNeely even though everything he does sounds almost exactly like John Williams!
Sure I do... the difference is that McNeely is open about it. His early works a littered with lifts, rip offs... stealing if you will... he even called up Bruce Broughton once to apologize for using one of his themes NOTE FOR NOTE in one of his scores because that's what the director wanted.
Scribe wrote
... whereas McNeely sounds almost exactly the same every time he writes a score!
And there you would be wrong!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Southall wrote
Music performed by a symphony orchestra and choir was there long before Elliot Goldenthal but it doesn't mean 300 doesn't rip off Titus.
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
The more correct analogy would be "but what if <score A> and <score B> both rip off <folk style C>?"
But the whole thing is utterly moot to me.
I thoroughtly enjoy either score.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012 edited
As do I, but your analogy would not be more correct. In this instance Piece A is written in the style of Piece C. Piece B is written in precisely the same harmonic language, same key, same orchestration, virtually same melody as Piece A. -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Southall wrote
As do I, but your analogy would not be more correct. In this instance Piece A is written in the style of Piece C. Piece B is written in precisely the same harmonic language, same key, same orchestration, virtually same melody as Piece A.
Where Piece A would not be like piece C, but in the style of style C. Like Piece B.
A cat is a mammal
A dog is a mammal.
Yet a cat is not a dog.
Guys, it's both flamenco bulerias.
It's a style, a type of music. Like blues.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Yes, it's a style, but (I may have mentioned this before) it is not just "style" that is the same. It's everything. One piece would not exist if the other one did not. It's He's So Fine / My Sweet Lord, it's Surfin' USA / Sweet Little Sixteen, it's Titus / 300. -
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
If you are comparing Titus/300 to Zorro / Puss in Boots then you are clearly insane and that is the end of the discussion.I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
Everything sound like everything. The End!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorchristopher
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
No I think we should keep arguing. Eventually talking about it enough will make it true.
Anyway, of COURSE PUSS IN BOOTS sounds like Zorro (and it does! and not just the style! so there!), because that character is based on Zorro and Banderas played both characters. They were TOTALLY going for a Zorro vibe there. I wouldn't be surprised if the only flamenco music Jackman looked into before writing it was Horner's Zorro music. -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
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- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hspNaoxzNbs'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
James that Is fantastic !Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012
No it isn't.host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorMarselus
- CommentTimeAug 16th 2012 edited
'I could be arguing in my spare time'
Erik Woods wrote
No it isn't.
Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
Fine.
Jackman shamelessly ripped off Horner.
Jackman and Horner both wrote great fun scores.
If those two can be not mutually exclusive then I am happy.I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
I won!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorjustin boggan
- CommentTimeAug 17th 2012
Scribe, is this anything like when you let you kid win Checkers on purpose?The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.