• Categories

Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

 
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010 edited
    sdtom wrote
    So what is the purpose of the piracy statement at the beginning of the film? If this is a somewhat positive thing why are the DVD's copy protected?
    confused Thomas

    Tom, it seems as if you KEEP on thinking that saying that piracy and theft are not the same, somehow excuses one or the other.

    It doesn't.
    All it means is they are DIFFERENT.

    As to the anti-piracy statement, I would have thought that was obvious: the studios -without any prior proof or research- have decided in their ultra-conservative wisdom that piracy by definition is the same as theft (i.e.: "you copy, therefore you lose me money"). While overwhelmingly the evidence points towards it not being as black and white as all that, of course the studios aren't going to backtrack on this one!

    One (obvious) reason to retain that anti-piracy message is that in most countries piracy is illegal. So by all means point it out.
    Secondly, more cynically, it's in the studios' interest to perpetuate the idea that piracy is costing them real, physical money: not only does that help them in court (especially in suing for "damages"), but it also helps them maintain a stranglehold control over their products (and the money streams connected to them). It's simply not in their interests to release or diminish that control.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010
    So even though I'm wrong according to you and Steven the studios agree with my thinking that piracy and theft are the same
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010
    Well of course they agree, it's their job to. We aren't studios though.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010 edited
    I've been involved in a situation a long time ago where one of my photographs was used without my permission. You would call that piracy and can make the argument that because my photo was used it was actually good for me and sales resulted because of it. I spent a certain amount of money and a considerable amount of time and person X just used it because he liked it for his own purpose. A studio spends time and money to produce a film and they're entitled to reap the benefits. They have also lost large sums so it is a risky business and no one bails them out. I was entitled to damages and received a sum of money and the person who stole it was put on probation. As an aside he also took credit for taking the picture. I called him a thief and rightly so.
    Thomas
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010
    sdtom wrote
    So what is the purpose of the piracy statement at the beginning of the film? If this is a somewhat positive thing why are the DVD's copy protected?
    confused Thomas


    First, I just want to make clear that I'm not saying the effects of downloading are overall positive. What I'm saying is that there are both negative and positive factors to take into account, and the overall effects aren't easy to determine.

    On to your questions:

    I think there has been a huge fear from the beginning that downloading would cause the end of music purchasing altogether. I can kind of understand this thinking, because "if you can download the entire product for free, why spend money on it?". It turns out that the fears were wrong. People who download for free also purchase music. The people who download the most also purchase the most. It seems counterintuitive, but that's how reality turned out. Apparently people want the physical, professionally produced products.

    It will probably take decades, and some influential studies, before the major music companies will realize that it's not the end of the world. As it is now, the fear exists, and major companies find the evidence they expect by pointing at correlations between music downloading and music purchasing, without even considering whether there is a causal link. I'm not sure if it's intentional, but there seem to be so much emotion and bias involved now that no one ever seem to stop to think "hey, what if we're wrong?". Now, it seems they're in a panic, trying to slow down the inevitable end of the world, as they see it, by spreading misinformation and changing laws.

    Peter smile
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010
    sdtom wrote
    So even though I'm wrong according to you and Steven the studios agree with my thinking that piracy and theft are the same


    Of course they do. It's in their interest to do so.
    The LAW however says otherwise.
    And luckily the courts still tend to follow the law, rather than studios' opinions.

    sdtom wrote
    I've been involved in a situation a long time ago where one of my photographs was used without my permission. You would call that piracy and can make the argument that because my photo was used it was actually good for me and sales resulted because of it.


    If the person appropriated credit for your work, I can't possibly see how this would benefit you.
    I have however never seen any downloader ever taking credit for creating the latest Bond film or Madonna CD...

    I called him a thief and rightly so.

    Only morally. Legally it's still piracy. (nothing has been stolen. Stealing by any legal definition means taking something AWAY so it is no longer THERE. Your photo was never ABSENT.)

    That said, I'm glad he didn't get away with it.
    To take money by someone else's hard work is bitterly reprehensible and, thankfully, generally illegal as well.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010
    plindboe wrote
    Now, it seems they're in a panic, trying to slow down the inevitable end of the world, as they see it, by spreading misinformation and changing laws.


    The main delaying factor is that the studios still haven't come up with a viable program to actually make (even more) money out of this trend. And THAT's the main concern. They have no control over this aspect.
    That's a big reason to stick with the hypothetical damage idea: at least it gives them something to work with.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010
    A good discussion cheesy
    listen to more classical music!
  1. Martijn wrote
    Timmer wrote
    I'd like to know exactly where the law stands on all of this?


    Which law system would have your preference?
    Common? Chinese? French? International European? Shariah? Ex-Soviet?


    Shariah Copyright Law Violations: first they put a burka over your head, then they cut if off.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010
    cheesy
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2010
    sdtom wrote
    A good discussion cheesy


    Indeed. smile One of the few boards where people can have a rationel discussion about this subject, without getting into emotional and accusational flame wars. Reading the thread on FSM is like stepping into a soap opera; I've never seen so much drama before in my life.

    Peter smile
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    plindboe wrote
    I've never seen so much drama before in my life.


    Clearly you've never seen Crossroads!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8MsQ0AcLo
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    plindboe wrote
    sdtom wrote
    A good discussion cheesy


    Indeed. smile One of the few boards where people can have a rationel discussion about this subject, without getting into emotional and accusational flame wars. Reading the thread on FSM is like stepping into a soap opera; I've never seen so much drama before in my life.

    Peter smile


    I couldn't read through the thread at FSM
    listen to more classical music!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    Southall wrote
    plindboe wrote
    I've never seen so much drama before in my life.


    Clearly you've never seen Crossroads!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8MsQ0AcLo


    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

    Goddarned Midlander! slant
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  2. Southall wrote
    plindboe wrote
    I've never seen so much drama before in my life.


    Clearly you've never seen Crossroads!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8MsQ0AcLo


    Even without clicking the link, that is already the best post in the history of this board or any other.
    So I will not click the link and ruin the experience. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    Southall wrote
    Clearly you've never seen Crossroads!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8MsQ0AcLo


    Intense stuff!

    Peter shocked
  3. Something struck me about this when I was looking at the recent review posted here. I was wondering what the function of reviews of promotional releases were when they are not available for the general film music listener? Anyone wanting to hear this would either have to contact the composer (in this case Mac Styran) or download the title from somewhere (or have it shared by the original reviewer). Would that be illegal?

    In the case of promotional discs does the composer want the music to be shared? A lot of promotional discs say that they are not for sale so the people producing them don't want them sold but can they be freely shared?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    Technically any copying of someone else's work is illegal unless you have written permission from they who own the rights. And I'm fairly certain that a "promo" label does not count as "written permission."

    As far as the composer wanting them to be shared, that depends entirely on the composer. I've heard of composers deliberately helping release promos to the fan community, and I've also heard of composers being offended when someone asked them to sign their promo disc.

    That being said, I don't think there are many members of the film music listening community who particularly care about either of the above points. I used to, until I tried to live without The Lion King bootleg in my collection, at which point I quickly exhibited withdrawal symptoms comparable to heroin. And it's not that I even listen to most of my promos and bootlegs but once upon a time. It's just something about having them... slant
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    I love how Americans so often tend to take their national laws as globally applicable ... wink
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    They aren't?
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    Martijn wrote
    I love how Americans so often tend to take their national laws as globally applicable ... wink


    The world police.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  4. Scribe wrote
    They aren't?


    Well, we do all try to be polite while they still have most of the guns.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    If I wasn't so attached to my job I would leave this ridiculous country in a heartbeat.

    But alas, I choose to continue to contribute to the ridiculousness.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  5. Well, a lot of the music out there comes from Hollywood, which is in the States, the films and music from which is mostly governed by laws in the States. Pray, what are the international copyright laws for music produced in the United States, oh wise international ones? wink
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2010
    At a guess, it doesn't matter where the music was produced, it only matters where the file is hosted and where the downloader lives. (I suspect laws around this stuff are fairly similar in most countries, though enforcement varies.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2010 edited
    Southall wrote
    At a guess, it doesn't matter where the music was produced, it only matters where the file is hosted and where the downloader lives.


    Not a guess, fact. Place of production matters not one iota.
    And laws vary insanely, which is only part of the whole mess. slant
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2010
    Martijn wrote
    I love how Americans so often tend to take their national laws as globally applicable ... wink


    Some Americans smile
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2010
    I think the promo CD is a bit off the beaten path in this discussion. This was a very expensive (a lot of the problem) set that was being offered for free.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
    • CommentAuthorKevinSmith
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2010
    Sleeping kitten indeed...
    Revenge is sweet... Revenge is best served cold... Revenge is ice cream.