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GUSTAVO SANTAOLALLA
General Discussions » GUSTAVO SANTAOLALLA (Posts 1 to 30 of 103)
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- CommentTimeDec 20th 2007
Gustavo is back!
On the Road
I Come with the Rain
http://upcomingfilmscores.blogspot.com/ … -rain.html -
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2007
And with another Oscar soon?Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2007
I'm one of those who think BABEL was absolutely brilliant, and the use of music was very worthy of the Oscar it got. Yes, I can understand the controversy in that a lot of it was culled from other sources (sometimes Santaolalla's own back catalogue) and so it was maybe not worthy as a score composed ORIGINALLY for the film, but the musical application....brilliant!I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2007
Thor wrote
I'm one of those who think BABEL was absolutely brilliant, and the use of music was very worthy of the Oscar it got. Yes, I can understand the controversy in that a lot of it was culled from other sources (sometimes Santaolalla's own back catalogue) and so it was maybe not worthy as a score composed ORIGINALLY for the film, but the musical application....brilliant!
I like the album, particularly Sakamoto's pieces.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2007
What are people's favorite pieces from Babel? I've been unable to get into the score, but if I play the best cues on repeat some times I might start to "get it".
Peter -
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2007 edited
The helicopter cue stands out. And the music (or rather use of sound) in the disco scene (with the deaf girl). This is an interesting film to study, both for the diegetic and non-diegetic music (and sound).
(...and sorry for all the parentheses!)I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2007
Hi Thor,
I've not seen the movie, just have the score. Do you know what the track titles for those scenes are?
Peter -
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2007
No, sorry, I do not own the soundtrack.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2007
Thor wrote
The helicopter cue stands out. And the music (or rather use of sound) in the disco scene (with the deaf girl). This is an interesting film to study, both for the diegetic and non-diegetic music (and sound).
(...and sorry for all the parentheses!)
Totally agree.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2007
plindboe wrote
Hi Thor,
I've not seen the movie, just have the score. Do you know what the track titles for those scenes are?
Peter
Peter, these are the higlights from BABEL
The helicopter scene, gorgeous piece of music: CD1 - 4. "Medley: Deportation/Iguazu"
CD1- 5. "World Citizen - I Won't Be Disappointed/Looped Piano" - Ryuichi Sakamoto
The end-credits piece by Sakamoto: "Bibo No Aozora/04" - Ryuichi Sakamoto
CD1. Extra highlights by Santaolalla: "Tazarine", "Hiding it", "Desert Bus Ride"Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeDec 23rd 2007
Thanks alot, Demetris, very helpful answer!
Peter -
- CommentAuthorGrimble Gromble
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009 edited
I had one of those "I want to strangle Gustavo Santaolalla" moments just now and figured I'd vent it here.I'm your Piper at the gates of dawn. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Grimble Gromble wrote
I had one of those "I want to strangle Gustavo Santaolalla" moments just now and figured I'd vent it here.
Ehm....OK? Anything particular that caused this?I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Thor wrote
Grimble Gromble wrote
I had one of those "I want to strangle Gustavo Santaolalla" moments just now and figured I'd vent it here.
Ehm....OK? Anything particular that caused this?
Two words... BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
I think Grimble Gromble wants to make that BROKEBACK and NECK.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Thor wrote
Grimble Gromble wrote
I had one of those "I want to strangle Gustavo Santaolalla" moments just now and figured I'd vent it here.
Ehm....OK? Anything particular that caused this?
Two words... BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.
-Erik-
...which is a great score and instrumental in making this film a contemporary classic!
The whole "I hate Santaolalla because he doesn't compose the big orchestral music that I like" routine annoys me to no end.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
I agree with Thor, I think a lot of the "hate" comes from the fact he won two Oscars back to back
I liked his contributions to BABEL, very enjoyable listen.
Like Ry Cooder, Santaolalla will always be a limited choice composer.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Thor wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Thor wrote
Grimble Gromble wrote
I had one of those "I want to strangle Gustavo Santaolalla" moments just now and figured I'd vent it here.
Ehm....OK? Anything particular that caused this?
Two words... BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.
-Erik-
...which is a great score and instrumental in making this film a contemporary classic!
The whole "I hate Santaolalla because he doesn't compose the big orchestral music that I like" routine annoys me to no end.
I wouldn't call it a "great score" but I do think it's fine for the film. It didn't deserve an Oscar (it was exactly what this film needed, perhaps not the best possible score for it but by no means the worst) - but it's not Santaolalla's fault that he won one undeservedly! In his extremely limited range, he's fine. I'd be disappointed if he got assigned to the next Star Trek film (say), but as long as he keeps on scoring things within his niche then I have no problem with that. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009 edited
Southall wrote
I wouldn't call it a "great score" but I do think it's fine for the film. It didn't deserve an Oscar (it was exactly what this film needed, perhaps not the best possible score for it but by no means the worst) - but it's not Santaolalla's fault that he won one undeservedly! In his extremely limited range, he's fine. I'd be disappointed if he got assigned to the next Star Trek film (say), but as long as he keeps on scoring things within his niche then I have no problem with that.
I think it was VERY deserving of the Oscar, in fact one of the most deserving Oscars in many a year. Thankfully, this award doesn't go out to the score that uses the most instruments or that is the most traditional or the most complex, but the score that actually serves its movie in a way that lifts it up to something more than just a standard drama. Just by looking at how many times the theme has been used in parodies, references, allusions etc. (perhaps to parody "tough guy love" or something) you'll see a testament to its iconic status.
Of course, the score wouldn't be appropriate in FAST AND THE FURIOUS or something, but it was PERFECT in the film it accompanied.
What annoys me is that many soundtrack fans often have a hard time calling something a great score UNLESS IT APPEALS to their own musical taste and what they want to have on an album. They're simply not interested in - nor willing, perhaps - to see how it actually works and what it does in context.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Brokeback Mountain was certainly NOT deserving of an Oscar. A very repetitive and limited score. Did it work? Sure, most film scores do. And just because the theme has been parodied or referenced doesn't mean that it's Oscar worthy. It may win a popularity contest but I guess that's what the Oscars are anyway.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Brokeback Mountain was certainly NOT deserving of an Oscar. A very repetitive and limited score. Did it work? Sure, most film scores do. And just because the theme has been parodied or referenced doesn't mean that it's Oscar worthy. It may win a popularity contest but I guess that's what the Oscars are anyway.
There are absolutely ZERO arguments in what you say, Erik, except that you don't like the solo guitar music being used (and - if I know your taste right - you'd rather have a more traditional orchestral Western score a la Bruce Broughton, right? That would IMO have been a SERIOUS, SERIOUS misstep). If that's your preference, fine, but it does not allow you to comment on the film's "worthiness" as an Oscar winner. If you don't think it was worthy of an Oscar, you need to tell me WHY!I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Thor wrote
If you don't think it was worthy of an Oscar, you need to tell me WHY!
It doesn't tell me anything I don't already know. The film is no better for having that music there than it would be by just tracking in any generic, pleasant solo guitar music - there is no dramatic undercurrent to it. Saying it's perfect for the film is all well and good, but you need to tell me WHY it lifts the film up, because that's not something I can see. I can't tell you that it's not a good score, because I think it's fine, but giving it an Oscar on the basis that it meets its exceptionally limited goals is completely unwarranted. It's like saying Michael Clayton should have won an Oscar for Best Costumes because all the costumes in it were so perfect for the film. Yes, they were perfect, but there was nothing stretching there for the costume designer, nothing that any competent costume designer couldn't have done just as well. For me, Brokeback Mountain is the musical equivalent of that. The score did everything it needed to do, but what it needed to do wasn't a great deal. And that's why I don't think it was worthy of an Oscar. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009 edited
Southall wrote
Thor wrote
If you don't think it was worthy of an Oscar, you need to tell me WHY!
It doesn't tell me anything I don't already know. The film is no better for having that music there than it would be by just tracking in any generic, pleasant solo guitar music - there is no dramatic undercurrent to it. Saying it's perfect for the film is all well and good, but you need to tell me WHY it lifts the film up, because that's not something I can see. I can't tell you that it's not a good score, because I think it's fine, but giving it an Oscar on the basis that it meets its exceptionally limited goals is completely unwarranted. It's like saying Michael Clayton should have won an Oscar for Best Costumes because all the costumes in it were so perfect for the film. Yes, they were perfect, but there was nothing stretching there for the costume designer, nothing that any competent costume designer couldn't have done just as well. For me, Brokeback Mountain is the musical equivalent of that. The score did everything it needed to do, but what it needed to do wasn't a great deal. And that's why I don't think it was worthy of an Oscar.
There are several reasons for why I think the Oscar was well-deserved:
1. By staying low-key and sparse, it avoids the "testosterone" of a more fleshed-out Western epic (even though this IS an epos in a different way). Like the film itself, the music goes refreshingly AGAINST convention. This is the major reason for why it was worthy.
2. It's spotted extraordinary well.
3. The theme has a "bittersweet", melancholy quality that hints towards the always unresolved relationship between Jack and Ennis. It pops up as a leitmotif for this relationship throughout.
4. By the end of the film, the recurring theme begins to haunt you. Throughout the film, it has been presented sometimes unfulfilled, sometimes more elaborate. But due to the sheer repetition, it becomes "one" with the narrative to an extent that hasn't been seen many times. Except maybe Raksin's LAURA or some of Williams' character "call cards" (SUPERMAN, INDY).
5. The majestic nature images often speak for themselves. The sparse music almost makes these scenes more "three-dimensional" than if you had filled it with an in-your-face orchestral theme or something.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Thor wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Brokeback Mountain was certainly NOT deserving of an Oscar. A very repetitive and limited score. Did it work? Sure, most film scores do. And just because the theme has been parodied or referenced doesn't mean that it's Oscar worthy. It may win a popularity contest but I guess that's what the Oscars are anyway.
There are absolutely ZERO arguments in what you say, Erik, except that you don't like the solo guitar music being used (and - if I know your taste right - you'd rather have a more traditional orchestral Western score a la Bruce Broughton, right? That would IMO have been a SERIOUS, SERIOUS misstep). If that's your preference, fine, but it does not allow you to comment on the film's "worthiness" as an Oscar winner. If you don't think it was worthy of an Oscar, you need to tell me WHY!
Well, you made an ass out of yourself by assuming that I would have preferred a Broughton western score. Actually, I like the theme from Brokeback Mountain. Very memorable however there just isn't much going on in the score besides some ordinary guitar plucking, synths and light strings that really doesn't do much dramatically. Its as if the score was written (or performed) first and then plugged into whatever scene Lee felt necessary. And my God is the score repetitive. The same theme over and over again without variation. A theme shouldn't win you an Academy Award... but it's happened before.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Erik Woods wrote
Well, you made an ass out of yourself by assuming that I would have preferred a Broughton western score. Actually, I like the theme from Brokeback Mountain. Very memorable however there just isn't much going on in the score besides some ordinary guitar plucking, synths and light strings that really doesn't do much dramatically. Its as if the score was written (or performed) first and then plugged into whatever scene Lee felt necessary. And my God is the score repetitive. The same theme over and over again without variation. A theme shouldn't win you an Academy Award... but it's happened before.
-Erik-
You're ONLY talking about how it is as STAND-ALONE MUSIC here, not how it relates to the film, which is what the Oscars are for. I tried to give some reasons above as to why you can't judge a score's Oscar-worthiness by the sound of the music alone. You have to look at how it fits the film, its tone, its "mission" etc.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Thor wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Well, you made an ass out of yourself by assuming that I would have preferred a Broughton western score. Actually, I like the theme from Brokeback Mountain. Very memorable however there just isn't much going on in the score besides some ordinary guitar plucking, synths and light strings that really doesn't do much dramatically. Its as if the score was written (or performed) first and then plugged into whatever scene Lee felt necessary. And my God is the score repetitive. The same theme over and over again without variation. A theme shouldn't win you an Academy Award... but it's happened before.
-Erik-
You're ONLY talking about how it is as STAND-ALONE MUSIC here, not how it relates to the film, which is what the Oscars are for. I tried to give some reasons above as to why you can't judge a score's Oscar-worthiness by the sound of the music alone. You have to look at how it fits the film, its tone, its "mission" etc.
Thor - I AM TALKING ABOUT ITS USE IN THE FILM! I didn't find it engaging or anything special besides the first use of the theme. It's repetitive to a point where every time that theme pops up you just want it to stop!!!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Erik Woods wrote
Thor - I AM TALKING ABOUT ITS USE IN THE FILM! I didn't find it engaging or anything special besides the first use of the theme. It's repetitive to a point where every time that theme pops up you just want it to stop!!!
-Erik-
Not really. You're basically just talking about your personal reaction to it, and mostly about the music as MUSIC. But I know you've never been one to analyze and interpret films, so perhaps that was asking a bit too much.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
I like what Intrada's Doug Fake said about this a while ago-
I don't mean to belittle Gustavo's award but I saw BABEL and the only music I really noticed was either from another movie or by someone else entirely. Gustavo's part seemed pretty minimal. Certainly too much so to be Oscar material. But that was then, this is now.
Once the music award went to works that were noticed, flashy, flamboyant, richly emotive, innovative, powerful, whatever. Not always the best, maybe, but usually noticeable. That's disappearing now. Two years in a row and counting...
Think what it would be like if the Academy did this with acting. You come out of a great movie and you say to your mate "who was the lead actor, I don't recall" and your mate says "I've forgotten what the main actor's part even was" and you say "I guess it was so good it wasn't even noticeable" and your mate says "Golly! It should get an Academy Award or at least a nomination because it blended in with the movie so well I can't even remember a single part... " and so on and so forth.
But that's where they went with the music this time. I certainly don't recall much in BABEL to write home about. I didn't for BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, either, but I'd at least mostly gotten past it. -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Thor wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Thor - I AM TALKING ABOUT ITS USE IN THE FILM! I didn't find it engaging or anything special besides the first use of the theme. It's repetitive to a point where every time that theme pops up you just want it to stop!!!
-Erik-
Not really. You're basically just talking about your personal reaction to it, and mostly about the music as MUSIC. But I know you've never been one to analyze and interpret films, so perhaps that was asking a bit too much.
My personal reaction to it? What other reaction do I have?
Everything I wrote was based on my experience by hearing the score in the film. I've only ever listened to the score on CD once and that was AFTER seeing the film. Also, I've only seen the film once so I can't recall specific scenes and whatnot to go into an intellectual, deep debate about the score and/or film. What I wrote is what I remember from my experience when I saw the film in the theatre. What I took away with me was a score the seemed plugged in, with no dramatic arc, nothing about it helped tell the story or tell me anything significant about the characters the music was supposedly written for. It sounded cheap, generic, and pedestrian! Again, a very good theme but little of anything else. Wanna listen to a western score with something to say on a limited budget with limited instruments... check out Mark McKenzie's Frank and Jesse.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeAug 25th 2009
Thor wrote
1. By staying low-key and sparse, it avoids the "testosterone" of a more fleshed-out Western epic (even though this IS an epos in a different way). Like the film itself, the music goes refreshingly AGAINST convention. This is the major reason for why it was worthy.
2. It's spotted extraordinary well.
3. The theme has a "bittersweet", melancholy quality that hints towards the always unresolved relationship between Jack and Ennis. It pops up as a leitmotif for this relationship throughout.
4. By the end of the film, the recurring theme begins to haunt you. Throughout the film, it has been presented sometimes unfulfilled, sometimes more elaborate. But due to the sheer repetition, it becomes "one" with the narrative to an extent that hasn't been seen many times. Except maybe Raksin's LAURA or some of Williams' character "call cards" (SUPERMAN, INDY).
5. The majestic nature images often speak for themselves. The sparse music almost makes these scenes more "three-dimensional" than if you had filled it with an in-your-face orchestral theme or something.
I agree with this, but each of your five points strikes me as being something which should be expected of any film score, and not an indication of an outstanding, Award-worthy one. Ultimately, it just doesn't seem to be a film which requires a "great score" - it got the score it wanted and the score it needed, but it's one of those where there is music which happens to be playing at the same time as the film. It's not the product of serious thought into the dramatic needs of the film - at least, not serious thought on the part of Santaolalla (though I'm sure there was serious thought by Ang Lee). It's fine for what it is, as I keep saying, but to repeat my analogy from above, it seems like giving Michael Clayton an Oscar for best costumes. The nature of the film is such that it doesn't require a great score, it is made in a way that the music required is minimal in scope.