As Above, So Below - the religion thread (formerly: People of California, beware)

It certainly does, D.
You choose not to follow such rules, as they (quite rightly) contravene your common sense, values and informed reasoning.
But the rules are still there, and a majority of people LIKE such clear-cut rules. Thinking for yourself ISN'T all that easy, and guidelines work wonders. Sadly, these will more often than not be abused by those out for power for themselves.



...are you calling Scientology Humanist?

No, but in our days i am not convinced behind anyone's MORAL HIGH GROUNDS, especially be it people with power and money, priests, the church, politicians, Dawkins any of those.

As for my point of view, think about this. When i see a slogan on a bus that urges me to "stop thinking about god and enjoy my life" it really gets on my nerves; why? 'cause it underestimates me. My I.Q, my self-esteem. The majority of the like-minded Europeans who are Christians and around my age-span, are clearly open-minded people who think for themselves and are far cut-off from the dark closemindness of grandparents, parents and ancestors. I, like the rest of the healthy society i observe around me, certainly don't need any Mr.Dawkins or anyone else to dictate me how to enjoy my life, my sexuality, my brain and logic, my body, my thinking, the virtues of life. 'Cause they can be sure we are doing it to the fullest, from enjoying our body and sexuality to the pleasure of being a thinking individual who openly acts in the social functions of the surrounding community and we need nobody to tells us how to do it, especially if that dictates any sort of departure from our religion.

If some humanists - or whatever, still think we are in the middle ages - at least in Europe where the majority of the young population is now very well educated ('cause i strongly sense that a large part of the Americans still are somewhat "elsewhere", i mean look at the "McCain lady" who i strongly hope is the minority but i am not too sure about it), then it's them who have a problem.

How do you know they aren't? Or at least they aren't starting to? Seriously.

Well, there are times i really wish i could share the same innocent and partly romantic view on everone , as yours, my dearest Bregje

Yes, I also think it's stupid what this Dawkins says. For me religion has nothing to do with intelligence.

But there are different kind of religious people. There are people who do not think of right and wrong and live their whole life for God and do whatever God wants them to do. That's heteronomous. That's not thinking. And they can have a high IQ. It's about not taking responsibilty for your own life and actions.

And there are people who believe there is a God but who also believe they are free to make decisions in their life, make up their own mind, do what they think is right. That autonomous. And that's what's important for humanists.

From the way you describe yourself and people your age I would say you are a religious humanist, if you would want to put any label to it. The humanist part is focussing on your life here and now, not on the afterlife, taking responsibilty for your own actions and make decisions yourself, think independently about right and wrong while learning from others, enjoy life with other people, etcetc.

No you didn't. I actually said it was unfair that the church has money and the DHA has not.
But your reply made me think of why I had that feeling of unfairness and the accusation was what it was.

I certainly do not trust everyone!
But I don't see one reason why I could not trust this organisation.
Perhaps it's also because from the humanists I know (and those are the 'organized' ones!) 95% doesn't care about money at all. In fact last year there was a training for humanist education teachers about how to sell lessons and projects to schools for a decent price. They couldn't even ask for money they deserve. Because they are all stupid idealists hehehe.


Of course I don't know what's going on within the organisation, but there are so many things we don't know and still we have faith, don't we? And that decision to trust makes me a happier person.

I don't feel i am being attacked as a christian, i think i made my self clear enough. I am offended as a thinking individual. Look above for more info.

As for the "GOD TELLS YOU WHAT TO DO" have you ever thought that, no, he-it-whatever, doesn't tell you what to do; people who claim that they are his do; it's up to you to think, filter and judge.

I think you've hit upon a vital aspect that's lacking from religion; irony. The funniest people are hellbound atheists!

I bet he's planning it as we speak. I don't trust them foreign lot...

Not any more they don't..
All burnt.

(Not that one would notice, taste-wise)

I love Richard Dawkins. My kind of thinker.

I love him too. A great man! Although I feel reluctant to admit that so fervently since those who do are almost always accused of giving him a god-like status... which is all so very ironic.

You're being very pedantic.