As Above, So Below - the religion thread (formerly: People of California, beware)

That would be the Amish.

I've met them in the Mormon state ( Utah ), nice people and not pushy. I wouldn't be bothered by a mosque or it's followers either, the muslims I know are very decent people.

It's not so much the followers as a whole, but rather the religion itself I'm not comfortable with. As completely ass-backwards as both religions are, in terms of what can be derived from the teachings (that is, their respective scriptures), I'm not sure Moominism is nearly as militant as Islam.

I mean, I've certainly never heard of Moomin terrorism or extremism?

I don't think Dark Ages 2 is very likely ever to occur any time soon, but religion certainly still has a lot of propensity to harm in both direct and indirect ways, even in when you take into account its benefits (which are far too few in light of its cons in my opinion). In which case criticism and debate is definitely needed.

I just wish people could find a way to console themselves spiritually without resorting to unjustifiable and preposterous claims about the cosmos.

Which is unfortunately inherent to the consolation: "There is a great and all powerful God whom, in His infinite wisdom, looks after me and loves me" is to many probably far more appealing than, say, "In the earliest epoch of cosmic evolution, inflation and its exponential growth allowed vast areas in the universe to differ in matter densities thanks to quantum fluctuations so as to create galaxies, stars, planets, life and ultimately humans."

I'd say that's the Dark Ages 1 still thriving!

I meant it's unlikely that we, the west, will see another Dark Age.

Too bad the oversensitivity of the religious, considered pretty much constrained from the late fifties onwards to parts of Ireland and the southern-most parts of Italy, on a wave of intolerance has seen its way clear to start demanding respect, autonomy and worse: social and cultural acceptance again for points of view that had formerly (and, one would have hoped, permanently) been dismissed as at best a set of guiding rules to pick and mix to lead a good life, and at worst fairytales to be enjoyed in the comfort of one's own home.

In history, the reasonable and critical have always had to bow to barbarians and intolerance.
As always, eternal vigilance is the price to pay for freedom of thought.

What would be a solution Martijn?

On the christian board I'm writing on, christians often feel superior and scoff at muslims for over-reacting and being over-sensitive, for instance concerning cartoons of their prophet. The thing is that christians used to behave exactly the same way, if not worse. We don't have to go back many centuries before people were tortured and killed for disagreeing with the church. Genocides were commited over minute doctrinal disagreements.

So what has changed? Christians have become desentisized after centuries of criticism, that's what happened. So while there are still big problems, the religion has basically become tamed in comparison to how it used to be.

Islam has managed to isolate itself from the western world. But with the rise of the internets, and increased globalization, it no longer is. That is why we frequently see these extreme reactions from the islamic world over the slightest intentional or unintentional provocations.

The only solution is to desentisize them. Valid criticism, and even mockery, can be very strong tools. I'm not one to apply the latter, but I don't discourage it either. The recent draw Muhammed day is one occasion I applaud.

To sum up, it's going in the right direction. Don't get alarmed by the bluster from the islamic world. They are no where near as powerful as they act. Just continue to debate and criticize; that is the medicine. That said, don't act like an ass either.

Peter

the mormon religion takes care of themselves to the point that they grow there own food and help their homeless

We have Matt Stone and Trey Parker to thank for that!

Bit of a grey zone really.










:coat:

This place enlightens me every day!

Thank you all.

words are great martijn but

Only if it's valid worldwide and in all cases; i consider dumb Redneck fanatical Christians (for intance) as dangerous as extremist Jihad muslims.