HENRY JACKMAN

Probably, yes. Even in the context of this series of films you could put Jackman alongside the others and find him a long way short of Tyler and Silvestri. But it probably is a shifting of eras, one I'm not especially comfortable with - the music having some vague commentary on mood from a distance, but deliberately emotionally unengaging and deliberately "macro-dramatic" - like "think of one word to describe this film" and then making the whole score just feel like that word (Zimmer does that - look at Sherlock Holmes - but still usually manages to come up with some sort of dramatic arc so it doesn't feel quite as incessant as this one).

That 70s sound didn't really last that long - post-Star Wars, things went back far more to grander expressions of feeling and even Goldsmith got to that in the later years, with the big themes he did in the 90s - and now we're at a point where a lot of films have a peculiar need to feel "real" and that means having musical atmosphere more than underscore. You can see it in the critics - any film with a Williams or Horner score gets a musical lambasting in mainstream film reviews (even Desplat has suffered lately) whereas most Captain America reviews that mention the score do so in a positive way.

I guess whether I like the music on CD or not is neither here nor there - if it's good for the film, it's good for the film. It just seems to me that one of these "underpants on the outside" comic book hero films has a limit to how far the "realism" can truly go and if these films actually went for "escapism" with the music instead, people really wouldn't mind. And me and Jon would be writing with a smile on our faces instead of a scowl!

Times change, things change and we must like it or lump it. I don't like this latest change and will continue to be disappointed in it until the next change, which will presumably come when the world becomes a slightly happier place again and Hollywood reflects that mood change. Between now and then, I still have plenty of great film music in European and Asian films and even American ones made outside the studio system (with rare exceptions when a Desplat or one of the Newmans etc get a big film)

Thor's the big winner at the opposite game.

-Erik-

I can't add anything. This and your longer post is very well put. I can only but agree.

I have to ask, and it's not a trolling question and I am speaking as a huge fan of it: How is Inception different? You both seem to really like it and I think "textural solutions" define that score very well . Though calling it *just* texture would be exaggerating, which I can do for the argument's sake.

I am asking about, if I may say it so, finding textural solutions as a general scoring methodology, because I think that Captain America provokes (I'll listen to that score first thing in the morning though) a discussion about a general approach to film music in general that might (or might not) be persistent in today's scoring.

To me Inception is as close as a modern score can be to perfection. The question is: why is it so revered, if the approach is regarded as wrong, and why are other scores seen as wrong.

I'd just like to see what are the arguments against texture as a scoring method. For a moment, though this should be returned to later as a valid argument, let's forget about film genres (like superhero films). Maybe we could have a little discussion not unlike the Robert Folk discussions on Facebook here

And yes, talking about it in Jackman's topic is, I believe, fitting due to the controversy being at least partly started by a score that he wrote

Apart that it sounded new, back then, it was actually new, redefining Zimmer's previous sound (The batman scores) and moving onto the new Z sound, the Inception / Tron sound. Now, after 4 years, it's time to go away into a new sound, which judging from what i hear around, IS the Man of Steel sound, no matter if we like it or not. And it won't change soon, unless Amazing Spiderman 2 is as drastic as he says it will be (which i doubt).

Thing with Captain America: winter soldier, is that it's actually not at all that bad, imo (heard it), but rather than people are starting to get sick of composers pre-declaring scores that haven't been done in the past and new approaches only to eventually serve as another Z/RC inspired score. Don't you think that's funny? don't hype the whole thing, don't declare it with large and bold stuff that is not valid, just shut up and put the goddamn thing for us to hear with Zero expectations: maybe then, the reviews won't be that bad.

Review of the incredible Captain America: The Winter Soldier

the wit part: there are times yes

that cue The Winter Soldier is just horrible, has it literally come down to this musically? even the least inspired Jerry Goldsmith cue has got more panache than that

It does have some good moments, perhaps 10-15 minutes of them; it's just that the bad moments are so bad that it's easy to forget about them.

It's not listenable regarded as passable, I think.

I think I take a bit of an issue with the "works in film" argument being the lowest common denominator. In general the classically inclined public should find a way of discussion with the ambience/synthesis fans. I don't think the general synthesis capability is well-regarded by orchestral music fans and the quality of orchestrations is often not respected by the ambient fans. I find that ridiculous.

I must however make a point that this forum actually, fortunately, tries to balance acceptance of both, not just by having a very diverse group of score fans, but also by the fact that proper discussion tries to be somehow maintained even with the jocular jabs at certain styles, which are done (mostly) in good nature. But if the general fan community is basically trying to be, to simplify the situation, Hook vs. Inception (as I said, for the sake of the argument), we will not get anywhere.

I'm not saying that Captain America is a good score (I had to miss out on the film due to lack of subtitled 2D showings when I could go see it). I am saying that there should be a bigger attempt at discussion between fans of the two paradigms.

Same here

But suddenly it seems that you're not allowed to like Zimmer's Batman if you like Elfman's. And what if I like both?!

Yeah, the thing is that I am a very project-specific guy. Glad to see a lot of that here .

Thor calls Golden Age not a historical period, but a scoring paradigm.