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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2015
    christopher wrote
    Steven wrote
    Hmm, I'm also doing a shuffle, and it brought up 'Jenny' from The Rocketeer. Absolutely brilliant, merging Jenny's theme and the Rocketeer's theme in one piece to create the love theme. Incredible.


    Yes!!

    NP - THE GREAT HUMAN ODYSSEY (which is, btw, a word I can never spell correctly on my first attempt) - Darren Fung

    On my first listen now. This is really good!


    It is! A bit more generic and not QUITE as good as his previous effort, LOST YEARS: A PEOPLE'S STRUGGLE FOR JUSTICE, but still bloody good, IMO.
    I am extremely serious.
  1. NP: The Bourne Identity (2002) - John Powell

    New in collection.
    Boy, you get all sorts of ratings for this score. From frisbee to classic everything is on offer. Some say the sequel scores are better. That may be so but I always tend to start with the first score of a franchise. What I hear so far is good but not revolutionary. It probably would have been a different experiance 13 years back though.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    • CommentAuthorLars
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    Captain Future wrote
    NP: The Bourne Identity (2002) - John Powell

    New in collection.
    Boy, you get all sorts of ratings for this score. From frisbee to classic everything is on offer. Some say the sequel scores are better. That may be so but I always tend to start with the first score of a franchise. What I hear so far is good but not revolutionary. It probably would have been a different experiance 13 years back though.

    Volker

    i bought this score back when the movie came out, but without having seen the movie. i didnt like the score that much when i heard it for the first time. when the movie came out on dvd i watched it for the first time and i was blown away by the music in the movie. the main motive sounds much better with pictures and the actiontracks had a fantastic impact in these scenes. tracks like Main Titles, Treadstone Assassins, Escape From Embassy and On Bridge Number 9 are clear highlights for me. and all the drum loop music did make sense after watching the movie. a really good score, although the second one is my favourite.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    I remember liking and then buying the music for BOURNE IDENTITY after seeing the film. As with Lars it's BOURNE SUPREMACY for me, an utterly awesome score and in my top 50 all time soundtrack albums.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    Captain Future wrote
    NP: The Bourne Identity (2002) - John Powell

    New in collection.
    Boy, you get all sorts of ratings for this score. From frisbee to classic everything is on offer. Some say the sequel scores are better. That may be so but I always tend to start with the first score of a franchise. What I hear so far is good but not revolutionary. It probably would have been a different experiance 13 years back though.

    Volker


    Actually, if it is ANYTHING, it's revolutionary. The "Bourne riff" (the low, steady ostinato with just a two- or three-note harmonic variation on top) is probably the most revolutionary thing in film music in the last 15 years. Not only did copies crop up in action films in the years to come (like Geoff Zanelli's HITMAN), it was -- IMO -- the groundwork that steered mainstream action films away from power anthems (which were already starting to wane by the time of the PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN films) and into something more beat-based. Heck, even Zimmer himself seemed influenced by it when he did his BATMAN scores -- of course with his own 'twist' on things -- which again became hugely influential etc.

    I love the BOURNE scores myself, but I rarely find myself listening to them.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    Thor wrote
    Heck, even Zimmer himself seemed influenced by it when he did his BATMAN scores -- of course with his own 'twist' on things -- which again became hugely influential etc.


    I disagree. The Thin Red Line was patient zero for Hans' minimalistic approach on Batman.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015 edited
    lp wrote
    Thor wrote
    Heck, even Zimmer himself seemed influenced by it when he did his BATMAN scores -- of course with his own 'twist' on things -- which again became hugely influential etc.


    I disagree. The Thin Red Line was patient zero for Hans' minimalistic approach on Batman.


    But I'm not talking about a hypnotic form of minimalism here. I'm talking about action films in Hollywood with fat ground beats and a 16th riff on top. There really isn't anything in TRL that foreshadows BATMAN.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    Thor wrote
    lp wrote
    Thor wrote
    Heck, even Zimmer himself seemed influenced by it when he did his BATMAN scores -- of course with his own 'twist' on things -- which again became hugely influential etc.


    I disagree. The Thin Red Line was patient zero for Hans' minimalistic approach on Batman.


    But I'm not talking about a hypnotic form of minimalism here. I'm talking about action films in Hollywood with fat ground beats and a 16th riff on top. There really isn't anything in TRL that foreshadows BATMAN.


    It was the beginning of Hans' minimal mode, which Batman Begins is steeped in. FWIW, I've not heard any sound that I could interpret as "fat beats" in Hans' Batman Trilogy.

    I do agree that John Powell's Bourne sound is revolutionary through and through. Everything from the ostinato strings and use of percussion has been so influential through out the filmmusic community.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015 edited
    'Fat beats' is really the wrong word. I see that now (it's a better-suited word for EDM). What I meant is a LOW beat, meaning a percussive loop that goes in the lower regions of the soundscape. That's the main pulse of all BATMAN scores. For me, these scores are a development of what Powell started with the BOURNE work. Zimmer added more depth, especially those booming brass outburts that would be parodied from INCEPTION onwards -- but in essence it's the same basic ideas.

    While it is true he was noodling around with minimalist ideas in the 90s, it wasn't untill the BOURNE scores that his own action sound changed too. I think there's a definite LINE in film music history going there (at least for mainstream action films), and Zimmer was not immune to what his former student Powell was doing at the time. If TRL was so influential as you say in relation to the BATMAN scores, we would have seen a change in his sound much earlier. IMO -- if there's any influence at all -- it's secondary.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015 edited
    Thank you for the astounding insights everyone. Before today I never realized that it was impossible for a musical work to be simultaneously influenced by multiple preceding works at the same time. This changes everything.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    Scribe wrote
    Thank you for the astounding insights everyone. Before today I never realized that it was impossible for a musical work to be simultaneously influenced by multiple preceding works at the same time. This changes everything.


    jerk moon
  2. And I was only listening to BOURNE IDENTIY ... spin
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    Captain Future wrote
    And I was only listening to BOURNE IDENTITY ... spin


    I think my favorite Bourne score is Ultimatum.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    lp wrote
    Captain Future wrote
    And I was only listening to BOURNE IDENTITY ... spin


    I think my favorite Bourne score is Ultimatum.


    Definitely mine.

    I didn't particularly like Identity at first, but time made me appreciate how brilliant it was. And with hindsight of course we all know how revolutionary it was.
  3. lp wrote
    Thor wrote
    lp wrote
    Thor wrote
    Heck, even Zimmer himself seemed influenced by it when he did his BATMAN scores -- of course with his own 'twist' on things -- which again became hugely influential etc.


    I disagree. The Thin Red Line was patient zero for Hans' minimalistic approach on Batman.


    But I'm not talking about a hypnotic form of minimalism here. I'm talking about action films in Hollywood with fat ground beats and a 16th riff on top. There really isn't anything in TRL that foreshadows BATMAN.


    It was the beginning of Hans' minimal mode, which Batman Begins is steeped in. FWIW, I've not heard any sound that I could interpret as "fat beats" in Hans' Batman Trilogy.

    I do agree that John Powell's Bourne sound is revolutionary through and through. Everything from the ostinato strings and use of percussion has been so influential through out the filmmusic community.


    I'm not sure what you would call minimalism in The Thin Red Line, as I can think only of the ostinati of Stone in My Heart in that regard. I do agree that Powell was influential (and largely misunderstood too) in terms of adding minimalist ideas to action scoring, the Bourne theme is obviously a classic example of an ostinato (though not the "classical minimalism"). The thing with the Batman trilogy (I wouldn't say though that it's that much Bourne) is that while it introduced certain ideas he had into a fuller spectrum (I'd argue that the first score to involve ostinati in action scoring more was actually King Arthur and the major staple of Hans' minimalist tendencies is not the Batman trilogy, but rather Da Vinci Code). Hans himself, even if he wouldn't really admit it, would go into the classical minimalism realm to an extent with Frost/Nixon which may feature some Batman ideas (the ascending minor third motif even crops up there!), but is more in the classical sound.

    The Thin Red Line is minimal approach to scoring, but I wouldn't say it's a minimalist score. A three-note long-form ascending motif doesn't really qualify as minimalism in terms of what I heard of that tradition. It's restrained, it's not outwardly thematic (though the album does falsify the score in the way that it makes Journey to the Line the main theme and it's the Stone in My Heart theme that is repeated, in variations, but most often).

    Inception really pushed the line here and there the ostinati (taken from the Stone in My Heart formula) went a lot further in terms of actually developing the cues.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015 edited
    Although the first BOURNE was not very groundbreaking as far as the sound itself was concerned -- it's really just building on what was happening in EDM genres like house at the time, for example -- there are some 2-3 elements related to the particular "riff" that is original enough - especially in a mainstream action movie (this is an aspect that seems to be ignored!) that relied more on realistic action and settings.

    I will strongly maintain my view that Zimmer was among those who were influenced by this watershed in the genre -- and that he continued to build on it through the BATMAN movies, INCEPTION, MAN OF STEEL, AMAZING SPIDERMAN 2 etc. This became sort of the Bourne riff, Vol. 2 -- which also influenced a lot of other composers and scores -- like TRON: LEGACY, PRIEST, ELYSIUM, ENDER'S GAME and so forth.
    I am extremely serious.
  4. What if Desplat scored it though? He's so much better than all the rest of them.



    wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  5. Thor wrote
    Although the first BOURNE was not very groundbreaking as far as the sound itself was concerned -- it's really just building on what was happening in EDM genres like house at the time, for example -- there are some 2-3 elements related to the particular "riff" that is original enough - especially in a mainstream action movie (this is an aspect that seems to be ignored!) that relied more on realistic action and settings.

    I will strongly maintain my view that Zimmer were among those who were influenced by this watershed in the genre -- and that he continued to build on it through the BATMAN movies, INCEPTION, MAN OF STEEL, AMAZING SPIDERMAN 2 etc. This became sort of the Bourne riff, Vol. 2 -- which also influenced a lot of other composers and scores -- like TRON: LEGACY, PRIEST, ELYSIUM, ENDER'S GAME and so forth.


    TASM 2 is more EDM (dubstep) influenced than ostinato-ridden smile . In fact except one or two motifs there's not much of a typical ostinato (and the woodwind theme is baroque rather than minimalistic).
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    TASM 2 is more EDM (dubstep) influenced than ostinato-ridden smile . In fact except one or two motifs there's not much of a typical ostinato (and the woodwind theme is baroque rather than minimalistic).


    Absolutely. But there are other elements in this score that would NEVER have existed if it hadn't been for the BATMAN films, and before that, BOURNE. It's a natural progression.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    The Age of Adeline - Rob Simonsen

    I've been impressed by everything I've heard by Simonsen and this very beautiful music continues that trend. Excellent album.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015 edited
    Southall wrote
    The Age of Adeline - Rob Simonsen

    I've been impressed by everything I've heard by Simonsen and this very beautiful music continues that trend. Excellent album.


    Agreed -- although I find it to be 20 minutes too long (should be 40 as opposed to 60). But for a moment there, I was afraid you were going to introduce the second part of the sentence with a 'but'.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2015
    Actually I thought the analysis from lp and Thor was interesting, my sarcasm was directed specifically at the disagreement about Batman being influennced by either TTRL and Bourne as if it couldn't be both....don't know if that came across at 6 in the mornning wink
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  6. NP - HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON - John Powell

    Decided to give this whole album a spin again today. It's been a while. I've listened to the sequel a lot lately. Going back to this one was SO EXCELLENT. This score is so thrilling, so pulse pounding, so exhilarating! Cue after cue of outstanding music. Is there a better score written in the last five years? Not in my opinion. What a wonderful score.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2015
    NP: Civilization: Beyond Earth - Knorr, Kirkhope, Cohen, Curren, Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young, Black and Beautiful

    It's long. Veeeeerry long, but I simply can't seem to be able to whittle this down below 1 hour 40 minutes.

    A very, VERY strong game soundtrack that, while not shying away from a far too commonly used Great Wall Of Epic Sound Of Massive Chords Music, still retains its own musical identity. But more importantly: it's just DAMN fine music. Great themes, good flow and a clear musical narrative that keeps your attention throughout.

    Fantastic work with a lot of re-listen value.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2015
    Scribe wrote
    Actually I thought the analysis from lp and Thor was interesting, my sarcasm was directed specifically at the disagreement about Batman being influennced by either TTRL and Bourne as if it couldn't be both....don't know if that came across at 6 in the mornning wink


    TTRL4LYFE!!!!
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2015
    Martijn wrote
    NP: Civilization: Beyond Earth - Knorr, Kirkhope, Cohen, Curren, Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young, Black and Beautiful

    It's long. Veeeeerry long, but I simply can't seem to be able to whittle this down below 1 hour 40 minutes.

    A very, VERY strong game soundtrack that, while not shying away from a far too commonly used Great Wall Of Epic Sound Of Massive Chords Music, still retains its own musical identity. But more importantly: it's just DAMN fine music. Great themes, good flow and a clear musical narrative that keeps your attention throughout.

    Fantastic work with a lot of re-listen value.


    It is, but I'm still waiting for some savvy person to boil it down to some 60 minutes or so. I've been meaning to do it myself, but somehow keeps putting it off. Making playlists is not something I like to do.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2015
    I know. Normally I bring stuff down to 45-60 minutes tops as well.
    I tried, but as said: about 96 minutes is the best I can do here without missing out on some prime stuff and, (not unimportantly) really causing some breaks in the musical flow.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  7. Can you please share your current playlist with us, Martijn? I'd love to hear your version.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2015
    Here's mine:


    Geoff Knorr
    1. The Seeding
    2. Beauty in the Eye of the Orbiter
    3. Destroyer
    4. Lux Perpetua
    5. Benedicite Cumberpatch
    6. Our New World
    7. Acclimation
    8. Xenomalleum
    9. A New Beginning
    10. The Future of Mankind

    Grant Kirkhope
    11. Solar Collector
    12. Dogmatic Engineering
    13. Xeno Titan
    14. The Signal
    15. Deep Memory

    Michael Curran
    16. Earth's Ambassadors
    17. O Muse
    18. Deep Space
    19. Xenomancer


    still, I struggle to hear what all the fuss is about this score.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2015
    Martijn wrote
    I know. Normally I bring stuff down to 45-60 minutes tops as well.
    I tried, but as said: about 96 minutes is the best I can do here without missing out on some prime stuff and, (not unimportantly) really causing some breaks in the musical flow.


    I know what I need to do. I want to keep a couple of the ambient cues (but not all). I want to remove some of the action tracks that are a bit 'samey' (especially that go haywire with nonstop cymbal crashes and punctuation marks), and then finally I need to a) find a balance between calm and upbeat and b) some kind of narrative build. I'm no record producer, and never will be, so I'm guessing this work will require lots of hours. But I'm confident it's possible to remove at least 1 hour here.
    I am extremely serious.