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JOHN WILLIAMS
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- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
William wrote
Steven wrote
Anyway, back to the William's original point about how the main theme should have been played more often in the sequel.
It's his opinion.
It's an odd one, and it's wrong, but it is at least his.
Steven, a theme is what connects films in a franchise. It's like saying the Star Wars theme should only be played in the original Star Wars movie, because all the other films take place in different locations in the galaxy! Not even our small little world, but the galaxy! Yeah, right. As we've agreed, one of those themes is a theme for the dinosaurs. And I'm pretty darn sure dinosaurs appear quite prominently in The Lost World. And remember, it's not just The Lost World; it's The Lost World: Jurassic Park. It even bears the name of it's predecessor. I'm not saying the themes should necessarily be present in their original forms of grandeur, but I would have at least loved to hear even occasional outbursts in a minor key, or with an edgier sound representing the danger. But no. We didn't get hardly anything till the end.
Besides whether you have a point or not, I'm still having trouble understanding why it's such a problem. If you want to hear the Jurassic Park theme, listen to Jurassic Park! As much as I love that theme, I believe The Lost World to be a superior score in general, not marred in the slightest by the absense of said theme. -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
LSH wrote
If you want to hear the Jurassic Park theme, listen to Jurassic Park! As much as I love that theme, I believe The Lost World to be a superior score in general, not marred in the slightest by the absense of said theme.
I never said I didn't want to listen to Jurassic Park.The original score is virtually flawless; it's a favorite. This whole discussion is merely about why the main theme is not heard much in the sequel, and why it is sped up to an underwhelming, lackluster sound that takes away from the flowing, graceful nature of the theme as heard in the original.
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- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
William wrote
Steven wrote
Anyway, back to the William's original point about how the main theme should have been played more often in the sequel.
It's his opinion.
It's an odd one, and it's wrong, but it is at least his.
Steven, a theme is what connects films in a franchise. It's like saying the Star Wars theme should only be played in the original Star Wars movie, because all the other films take place in different locations in the galaxy! Not even our small little world, but the galaxy! Yeah, right. As we've agreed, one of those themes is a theme for the dinosaurs. And I'm pretty darn sure dinosaurs appear quite prominently in The Lost World. And remember, it's not just The Lost World; it's The Lost World: Jurassic Park. It even bears the name of it's predecessor. I'm not saying the themes should necessarily be present in their original forms of grandeur, but I would have at least loved to hear even occasional outbursts in a minor key, or with an edgier sound representing the danger. But no. We didn't get hardly anything till the end.
But you do get the equally familiar Journey theme (which one of Jurassic Park TWO MAIN THEMES)... twice. Good lord this is pointless.
-Erik-
PS - The Star Wars theme is Luke Skywalker's theme so it really doesn't make sense for it to be in the prequels.host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
William wrote
This whole discussion is merely about why the main theme is not heard much in the sequel, and why it is sped up to an underwhelming, lackluster sound that takes away from the flowing, graceful nature of the theme as heard in the original.
Because John Williams said so... so there!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
Erik Woods wrote
William wrote
This whole discussion is merely about why the main theme is not heard much in the sequel, and why it is sped up to an underwhelming, lackluster sound that takes away from the flowing, graceful nature of the theme as heard in the original.
Because John Williams said so... so there!
-Erik-
You've got me. -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
Erik Woods wrote
PS - The Star Wars theme is Luke Skywalker's theme so it really doesn't make sense for it to be in the prequels.
Good point. But it's also the main theme. -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
William wrote
LSH wrote
If you want to hear the Jurassic Park theme, listen to Jurassic Park! As much as I love that theme, I believe The Lost World to be a superior score in general, not marred in the slightest by the absense of said theme.
I never said I didn't want to listen to Jurassic Park.The original score is virtually flawless; it's a favorite. This whole discussion is merely about why the main theme is not heard much in the sequel, and why it is sped up to an underwhelming, lackluster sound that takes away from the flowing, graceful nature of the theme as heard in the original.
The first film put a lot of emphasis on the beauty of the island/dinosaurs/wonders of science, which explains the "flowing, graceful nature" of the themes. The second film is darker and more chaotic and this is mirrored perfectly in the score. There really is no need for constant references to the thematic ideas from the first film because, as Steven put it, it's a whole different beast.
EDIT
Just realised how pointless this all is. -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
Yes, I've been enjoying the argument. Like Steven said, the films are completely different. There is no place for Jurassic Park's main theme until the end of the film. Though maybe one could be the meeting between Juliane Mooreand the stegosaurus. I think it is fine without it though.
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- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
Steven wrote
I'm confused as to how something so simple needs so many explanations!
I thought it couldn't be clearer!?
...oh wellOn Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
omaha wrote
Though maybe one could be the meeting between Juliane Mooreand the stegosaurus.
That's what I was thinking. -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
William wrote
omaha wrote
Though maybe one could be the meeting between Juliane Mooreand the stegosaurus.
That's what I was thinking.
But the stegosaurus got their own theme.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
The Brachiosaurus theme is one of the best in the first score! -
- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
William wrote
Steven wrote
And a theme is not a motif, at least not in film music terms. A motif is a short musical statement (like Horner's infamous Four Note Motif™ consisting of -oddly enough- four notes). A theme is a full musical statement.
And who or what says a motif may not be a full musical statement? I've always been taught a motif is a succession of notes which bears importance and is often repeated to give meaning. And even so, those are two different full statements: thus, two themes, any way you look at it.
A motif -in technical terms- I'm sure can be a full statement. But in film music there has to be a distinction between the two, which is what I'm trying to describe. As I said, the lines between the two sometimes become blurred, yes, but a motif is usually a short musical statement, a theme is a full musical statement. (There are other ways to describe it, but this is perhaps most appropriate for this pointlessly endless discussion.) Of course, a theme can be used as a motif by playing a small section of that theme within the score, or hinting to the theme with a short musical statement. That does not necessarily mean it makes the full theme a motif.
William wrote
Steven wrote
Anyway, back to the William's original point about how the main theme should have been played more often in the sequel.
It's his opinion.
It's an odd one, and it's wrong, but it is at least his.
Steven, a theme is what connects films in a franchise. It's like saying the Star Wars theme should only be played in the original Star Wars movie, because all the other films take place in different locations in the galaxy! Not even our small little world, but the galaxy! Yeah, right. As we've agreed, one of those themes is a theme for the dinosaurs. And I'm pretty darn sure dinosaurs appear quite prominently in The Lost World. And remember, it's not just The Lost World; it's The Lost World: Jurassic Park. It even bears the name of it's predecessor. I'm not saying the themes should necessarily be present in their original forms of grandeur, but I would have at least loved to hear even occasional outbursts in a minor key, or with an edgier sound representing the danger. But no. We didn't get hardly anything till the end.
I see your logic, but unfortunately for you Star Wars are different kinds of films. They clearly tell an 'epic saga' which begs for continuity such as Williams gave them. Jurassic Park is different, because Williams was able to successfully produce a very different score for the sequel. It of course makes sense to include the original theme somewhere in the film, and he did. I believe there is a proper statement of the "grand" theme, I think there are other little spits and spats and then of course the end title. That is AMPLE use of the original theme/s, I wouldn't have it any other way.
It would have made sense to rehash his old score and no one would probably have thought otherwise. But Williams didn't, he decided to create something very new and fresh... does that not deserve praise? As Lee said, I too am having trouble understanding why you have such a problem with this. Go listen to the first score if it bothers you that much!
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- CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
Wait, hang on. We need something....
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!POINTLESS DISCUSSION ALERT!
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!POINTLESS DISCUSSION ALERT!
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!POINTLESS DISCUSSION ALERT!
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- CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009
I was playing a homemade playlist of Star Wars favourites to see if that would work.
It didn't.
Back to the full score!
Amazing to see how clear a narrative these scores are. Taken out of context, many tracks' impact is significantly lessened!'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeJun 22nd 2009
As pointed out endlessly, Williams' original themes' aren't used so predominantly throughout the sequel mostly because the TONE of them clash with the TONE of the film. But there is also a narrative purpose. The jubilatory theme park spectacle is a distant memory in a (relatively) distant past, which is why the JURASSIC PARK sign in LOST WORLD is greeted with a warped, slightly dissonant outburst of the original JP theme (at least a few notes of it). Stuff like that. And, I believe, the "they've found a way" line which refers back to Sam Neill's original line in the original film.
It's fine to wish for more of the original themes in the LOST WORLD, but one should be aware that one - at the same time - wishes for a different FILM as well. More like, you know, the first one...
What about the use (or non-use) of Williams' themes in JP3? That's a more fruitful discussion, I think.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009
finally added the 3 deluxe editions of the Indiana Jones music, sadly still without track titles to prove it
Anyway, for anyone who's still wondering what's so important or bad about this box, read the jibberish during:
- Raiders of the Lost Ark
- Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
- Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Cheerswaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh -
- CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009 edited
Thomas Glorieux wrote
finally added the 3 deluxe editions of the Indiana Jones music, sadly still without track titles to prove it
Anyway, for anyone who's still wondering what's so important or bad about this box, read the jibberish during:
- Raiders of the Lost Ark
- Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
- Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Cheers
Nice! It's about time we got reviews of these classics! I already own the box set; it'll be nice reading your takes on the scores. -
- CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009
( <-Indy)
(<- Big Evil Arab)
'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009
Martijn wrote
( <-Indy)
(<- Big Evil Arab)
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- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009
My favorite scene in the movie I thinkI also loved the pic you linked once
KNIFE?
K, LOL
(BANG)
LOLZ, N00Bhttp://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009
Not interested in Natty Gann so I ordered the FSM Williams cd.Goldsmith Rules!! -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJun 23rd 2009
moonie wrote
Not interested in Natty Gann so I ordered the FSM Williams cd.
I'm opposite.
The Williams just wouldn't get that much play from me.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeJun 24th 2009
Thomas Glorieux wrote
finally added the 3 deluxe editions of the Indiana Jones music, sadly still without track titles to prove it
Anyway, for anyone who's still wondering what's so important or bad about this box, read the jibberish during:
- Raiders of the Lost Ark
- Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
- Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Cheers
Excellent work, Tom! -
- CommentTimeJun 24th 2009
Thomas Glorieux wrote
finally added the 3 deluxe editions of the Indiana Jones music, sadly still without track titles to prove it
Anyway, for anyone who's still wondering what's so important or bad about this box, read the jibberish during:
- Raiders of the Lost Ark
- Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
- Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Cheers
Yes!!!!!
'Bout time mate -
- CommentTimeJun 24th 2009
moonie wrote
Not interested in Natty Gann so I ordered the FSM Williams cd.
This is the most extraordinary statement I have ever read on the internet. Truly, it is. When someone releases Quentin W. Arseburger's score for "Turnip Farms IV: Industrialisation", performed by a bassoon and a cymbal, all we hear is "Ordered!" - and for a Horner masterpiece, you're not interested!? This is honestly the first time I can ever remember you not being interested in something. -
- CommentTimeJun 24th 2009
Southall wrote
Quentin W. Arseburger's score for "Turnip Farms IV: Industrialisation", performed by a bassoon and a cymbal
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- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJun 24th 2009
http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website -
- CommentTimeJun 24th 2009 edited
Seems a might odd to me as well. Moonie is usually over the moon* about these kinds of releases!?
*I'm SO sorry. -
- CommentTimeJun 24th 2009
Steven wrote
*I'm SO sorry.
You *should* be.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn