JAMES HORNER

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- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
I am with Southall too; like most of the stuff we are discussing here, overrated is also like using 'underrated', it all is subjective and down to one's tastes so why do people begin waving flags when that word comes around?
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Nobody's waving flags.
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Not quite true; i saw various people getting offended all of a sudden when someone uses 'overrated'; it all is subjective anyway so i don't see where the problem is; but of course this is just my opinion.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Who got offended?
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Southall wrote
So how would you probably certainly define "overrated" then? If everyone says something is brilliant but you think it's crap, then surely to you that thing is overrated?

But surely I did so already?
"Overrated" suggests a generalist view, with some absolute characteristics ("Bach tends to be overrated: even though everybody says that he is the greatest composer that ever walked the earth, much of his work is demonstrably derivative of the groundbreaking work Vivaldi did." ) (<- it's just an example. I don't actually fully agree with this)

It's the equivalent of saying "people value this work on a higher level than it deserves".
Which is something else than saying "people value this work on a higher level than I do".
'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Who's James Horner?
'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
James Horner
On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Southall wrote
So how would you probably certainly define "overrated" then? If everyone says something is brilliant but you think it's crap, then surely to you that thing is overrated?

That's a good point, but even then I still don't like to call things overrated. I don't like a lot of Morricone or Barry scores, but I don't think they're overrated. They're obviously well-loved for a very good reason.

As Martijn put it, there's quite a lot of things that people value on a higher level than I do (and vice versa), but I'm very weary to admit people value work on a higher level than it deserves - it's all subjective!
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Martijn wrote
It's the equivalent of saying "people value this work on a higher level than it deserves".
Which is something else than saying "people value this work on a higher level than I do".

I can vaguely see what you mean, but I would use those two statements interchangeably. If I think something deserves to be rated highly then I personally rate it highly; and vice versa.

If I thought Jaws was a piece of crap then I'd say I thought it was overrated and I'd be correct. I suppose if I thought it was very impressive but didn't appeal to me because of my personal tastes then I wouldn't think (therefore wouldn't say) it was overrated but I'm not sure that's what Kevin was saying.
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- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010 edited
Southall wrote

If I thought Jaws was a piece of crap then I'd say I thought it was overrated and I'd be correct.

You'd be correct if you were using overrated in a purely subjective fashion. In that sense I don't have a problem with it. But I think it's too often used under the guise of a factual statement, and that's what grates with me: "This is overrated, hence everyone else is wrong."

It's a sticky word though, so I generally try to stay clear from it!
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Steven wrote
You'd be correct if you were using overrated in a purely subjective fashion. In that sense I don't have a problem with it. But I think it's too often used under the guise of a factual statement, and that's what grates with me: "This is overrated, hence everyone else is wrong."

I think that's a general issue rather than one specific to this word. The forum is rife with "X is the best score he's ever written" or "Y is a better composer than Z" - to me it's obvious that these things are personal opinions and I'm pleased that we're not an "IMHO"-type forum, though I know there are those who always react badly to it.
http://www.movie-wave.net | http://facebook.com/moviewave
- CommentAuthorplindboe
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Steven wrote

Southall wrote

If I thought Jaws was a piece of crap then I'd say I thought it was overrated and I'd be correct.

You'd be correct if you were using overrated in a purely subjective fashion. In that sense I don't have a problem with it. But I think it's too often used under the guise of a factual statement, and that's what grates with me: "This is overrated, hence everyone else is wrong."

It's a sticky word though, so I generally try to stay clear from it!

The problem with "overrated" is that the word itself has the meaning of a factual statement. The word is saying that everyone else rates it too highly. If people acknowledged that it was just their own subjective opinion they would say "I personally underrate it" instead of "Everyone else overrates it". The word "overrated" is saying the latter, thereby saying that everyone else rates it wrongly.

Peter
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
I don't mind the word itself... what I don't like is when someone says it but has nothing to back up the claim. Gives me some solid reasons as you why you think it's overrated. That's all.

-Erik-
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Erik Woods wrote
I don't mind the word itself... what I don't like is when someone says it but has nothing to back up the claim. Gives me some solid reasons as you why you think it's overrated. That's all.

-Erik-

Yeah, that's the other problem i have with it too, and it usually boils down to "I just don't like it that much", which in my opinion is not a good enough reason to call it overrated!
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
I agree!

-Erik-
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010 edited
You do realize that this applies to everything we discuss in here, right? What isn't in fact terribly subjective when it comes to liking / or not, reviewing or discussing film music? Very little.

Of course when someone doesn't supply reasons and arguments to back their opinions up, is a problem but why do people only go against the use of 'overrated' ? Why not object to 'underrated' too? The same applies to the latter but nobody gets offended, if one doesn't care about a score already they probably won't care about someone accusing them of doing so.

I am suspecting people get largely offended by accusations of ‘overrating’ a certain score ‘cause their personal tastes get attacked and probably don’t have many arguments themselves to support why they consider a certain score such highly.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010 edited
Are you going to tell me Demetris that you weren't the least bit interested to hear why someone would call a score like Jaws overrated? It's something you don't read every day and I don't think asking for a little bit of insight as to why someone would call one of the most universally praised scores in the history of film music overrated was uncalled for. This is a discussion board... a film music discussion board. Let's discuss film music. No one was shitting all over Kevin's comments. I was polite in my shocked reply to him and I was genuinely curious to hear what he had to say about Williams' score. Don't get all bent out to shape over this, guys! No one is attacking anyone here.

-Erik-
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
- CommentAuthorScribe
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
I honestly don't remember much about the score for Jaws because I was too distracted by how atrociously boring and cliche the movie was. Someday I may pick up the CD and learn to appreciate the score on its own merit, but until then, I happily join in giving it the "over-rated" rating

you don't have to be shocked Erik, I already said something like this before
I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Scribe wrote
I honestly don't remember much about the score for Jaws because I was too distracted by how atrociously boring and cliche the movie was. Someday I may pick up the CD and learn to appreciate the score on its own merit, but until then, I happily join in giving it the "over-rated" rating

you don't have to be shocked Erik, I already said something like this before

:speechless:
On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Erik Woods wrote
Are you going to tell me Demetris that you weren't the least bit interested to hear why someone would call a score like Jaws overrated? It's something you don't read every day and I don't think asking for a little bit of insight as to why someone would call one of the most universally praised scores in the history of film music overrated was uncalled for. This is a discussion board... a film music discussion board. Let's discuss film music. No one was shitting all over Kevin's comments. I was polite in my shocked reply to him and I was genuinely curious to hear what he had to say about Williams' score. Don't get all bent out to shape over this, guys! No one is attacking anyone here.

-Erik-

Well, to tell you the truth i thought it was a pretty crazy, Jordi-like stretched comment anyway and didn't pay much attention

However, my comments are especially aimed at some dense opposition i've observed through the last 6 months or so, coming from some certain forum members, against the usage of the word 'overrated' itself, in general. I can't stress enough how opposed i am to notions against specific words; if we are to go the 'nasty words' territory, we might as well rename it "maintitles.us"
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Jaws cliche? Jaws boring? John Williams' score overrated? What are you people smoking? Are you sure you're not talking about Jaws The Revenge?

-Erik-
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010 edited
^ See? Re-read my comment above and you'll understand my point better

To me JAWS is one of the most important movies and scores of the whole cinema in general; a milestone.

After all, it's considered by many academics as the one point in the cinema's history were we pass from old hollywood to what many call today "new Hollywood", where the use of image and music was forever changed.

So, call me a prick, but i don't read much into comments suggesting otherwise and this is why i don't care so much about the use of specific words.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010 edited
Christodoulides wrote
Of course when someone doesn't supply reasons and arguments to back their opinions up, is a problem but why do people only go against the use of 'overrated' ? Why not object to 'underrated' too? The same applies to the latter but nobody gets offended, if one doesn't care about a score already they probably won't care about someone accusing them of doing so.

Underrated is indeed a more positive word, so naturally people will have less of a problem with it. It's not a word I tend to use since I can never really be bothered to explain my reasons, even though I'm sure I have them - which I think is perfectly fair. But as it's not really belittling anyone's opinion, I don't really have a problem with it - which, again, I think is fair.

I am suspecting people get largely offended by accusations of ‘overrating’ a certain score because their personal tastes get attacked and probably don’t have many arguments themselves to support why they consider a certain score such highly.

Now that's perhaps a little unfair. I don't think there's any need to explain why we consider a certain score so highly until we make a non-objective statement like "This score is better than X."

If on the other hand someone calls the same score overrated but doesn't qualify their statement, it seems perfectly reasonable to enquire as to why they consider it overrated. If and when they do give their reasons, you can either agree or disagree with or without qualifying statements - which is all very fair I think.

Phew.
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
I was a bit unfair maybe to myself as well as other members, but was exaggerating to make a point; i hope it really comes along. Anyone can use whatever words they use; their character, the way one passes their opinions along and backs them up (or not) and treats others' counter-opinions, renders him / her invalid or not.

Let's not just stick to words.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
As for the above comments against JAWS; What are you people smoking? Seriously.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010 edited
<-- Me trying some of Scribe's shit to figure out just what in the hell he is talking about.

-Erik-
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Christodoulides wrote

However, my comments are especially aimed at some dense opposition i've observed through the last 6 months or so, coming from some certain forum members, against the usage of the word 'overrated' itself, in general.

It's spelt Steven, in case you were wondering.

Seems not liking a negative word is a bad thing!
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Christodoulides wrote
I was a bit unfair maybe to myself as well as other members, but was exaggerating to make a point; i hope it really comes along. Anyone can use whatever words they use; their character, the way one passes their opinions along and backs them up (or not) and treats others' counter-opinions, renders him / her invalid or not.

Let's not just stick to words.

Of course they can. Doesn't mean I have to like it. As long as they explain their reasons, I'm okay with it. (Even if I might disagree with their reasons.)
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Erik Woods wrote
<-- Me trying some of Scribe's shit to figure out just what in the hell he is talking about.

-Erik-

Yeah man, pass it this way next cos I can't figure that shit either.
On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
- CommentAuthorjustin boggan
- CommentTimeJul 20th 2010
Popular opinion and amount of praised heeped upon something does not equel "good", though. Something can have praised sung about it by a bunch, but still such balls. A comment about something being "overrated" can be a good choice of words, if -- for example -- one is saying, "Transformers is overrated", while someone saying, "Jaws" or "Dances With Wolves", is clearly WRONG.

Again, "The Island" (sorry, Jablonsky -- you again) is "overrated", while "Conan the Barbarian" is certain NOT overrated.
The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.

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