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The Dark Knight - Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard
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- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Then quit bring it back up for God's sake!
I was rather quiet about the whole topic until today. -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Well, let's calm down everybody. Everyone is free and welcome to express their opinions, i fail to see why and how some shouldn't be allowed to.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008 edited
Well, it´s just that I want to enjoy the new score and to enter a constructive discussion about it without having to scroll through a dozen pages of the same old arguments against the way Zimmer composes again and again. Why do we have to discuss this with each new score he writes? I just thought that at some point, people just could let it go, enjoy what they like, and let others enjoy their own stuff...
The freedom of speech includes the freedom to admit when there is no need to speak anymore.
Beside that, I know where and why you´re coming from with this, Demetris, and I can assure you that this is not going where the last thing between me and Erik went. At least I don´t think so. We´re exchanging valid points here, and I think he´s as okay with it as I am. So, no worry. -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Christodoulides wrote
Well, let's calm down everybody. Everyone is free and welcome to express their opinions, i fail to see why and how some shouldn't be allowed to.
We knew this was coming with The Dark Knight release Well in fact almost every Zimmer work re-opens the endless debate about him as a composer, businessman and human being.
What is simply amazing is that Jordi is quite in silenceAnything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008 edited
Well, i gotta say that once you get past the fact that it's slightly more organic and orchestral in places, the score drags and it's 99% underscore. I don't think some of the arguments presented before about the specific score are as pointless and stupid as some people (especially some who haven't heard the score yet) think they are.
What i was defending before was the first score, BATMAN BEGINS but i believe that the minimalistic nature of the musical approach to the film has now been extended to such degrees, it's not exactly beating the same horse when discussing some of this stuff about the new score.Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
That´s quite possible, and I won´t argue against that, but on the other hand, we haven´t seen the movie yet, and the new score might be as well suited to the movie as BB´s score was for BB. But in the end, we´ll just have to live with the discussion, haven´t we? -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Ralph Kruhm wrote
Well, it´s just that I want to enjoy the new score and to enter a constructive discussion about it without having to scroll through a dozen pages of the same old arguments against the way Zimmer composes again and again. Why do we have to discuss this with each new score he writes? I just thought that at some point, people just could let it go, enjoy what they like, and let others enjoy their own stuff...
I think things would get quite boring actually. I mean, when I posted my Batman Begins re-dux video did I think that everyone was going to finally change their minds and see it my way? No, of course not. But at least the people around here... most of them... were able to watch the video objectively and some people actually were able to finally see where I was coming from while others still held onto their argument that an Elfmanesque approach wouldn't work. I think it make for some interesting discussion. Yes, the tired old stuff eventually creeps in but it is there to help support arguments and points. Anyway...
Ralph Kruhm wrote
Beside that, I know where and why you´re coming from with this, Demetris, and I can assure you that this is not going where the last thing between me and Erik went. At least I don´t think so. We´re exchanging valid points here, and I think he´s as okay with it as I am. So, no worry.
I'm Ok. I thought for a moment though that you were getting into personal attacks again but I see your frustration and I'm sure I would be the same way if some one was coming down hard on one of my favorite composers. And I've been there and done that... just look at some of the Giacchino posts at moviemusic.com. Those guys are ferocious and 99% things lead to personal attacks.
Anyway, I think we are having a valid conversation as well... and it wouldn't be such an interesting and heated debate if we both liked the Batman Begins score, now would it?
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
I mean, when I posted my Batman Begins re-dux video did I think that everyone was going to finally change their minds and see it my way? No, of course not. But at least the people around here... most of them... were able to watch the video objectively and some people actually were able to finally see where I was coming from while others still held onto their argument that an Elfmanesque approach wouldn't work. I think it make for some interesting discussion. Yes, the tired old stuff eventually creeps in but it is there to help support arguments and points. Anyway...
I too thought that your video was a very imaginative, creative and constructive way to discuss the matters at hand. And I totally saw where you were coming from with that. It just didn´t work for me. But today I was just worried about the slight avalanche of the old stuff you mention.
I see your frustration and I'm sure I would be the same way if some one was coming down hard on one of my favorite composers. And I've been there and done that... just look at some of the Giacchino posts at moviemusic.com. Those guys are ferocious and 99% things lead to personal attacks.
Yeah, we lead a very harsh and dangerous life, don´t we?
Anyway, I think we are having a valid conversation as well... and it wouldn't be such an interesting and heated debate if we both liked the Batman Begins score, now would it?
Agreed. It´s just that... bah, forget it. Go and enjoy Backdraft, you old scum! -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Moviemusic.com? fsm's board? Forbidden, dangerous, hostile worldsLove Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008 edited
Christodoulides wrote
Moviemusic.com? hostile worlds
Yeah, tell Jordi about that Wait, or was his fault after all?...bah, doesn´t matter, maintitles rules!Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Marselus wrote
Christodoulides wrote
Moviemusic.com? hostile worlds
Yeah, tell Jordi about that Wait, or was his fault after all?...bah, doesn´t matter, maintitles rules!
Probably; i remember reading some remarks he made about Graeme REvell in moviemusic.com once and while i do agree that he isn't the greatest composer ever, still i wanted to kill him (Jordi)Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders. -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Christodoulides wrote
Marselus wrote
Christodoulides wrote
Moviemusic.com? hostile worlds
Yeah, tell Jordi about that Wait, or was his fault after all?...bah, doesn´t matter, maintitles rules!
Probably; i remember reading some remarks he made about Graeme REvell in moviemusic.com once and while i do agree that he isn't the greatest composer ever, still i wanted to kill him (Jordi)
Hehe..yes, he was kinda more agressive in that forum.Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008 edited
Look, we all just need to have angry sex and get it out of our systems. Who's with me? -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Steven wrote
Look, we all just need to have angry sex and get it out of our systems. Who's with me?
Well, not with you but I could use some! No crossing lightsabres.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Actually... well, I guess you don´t want to know anyway. -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
if other people on this forum can have angry sex ( totally agree by the way ), you can have your say Ralph. So, spit it out
Grtz, Psyjojo -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008 edited
I´m afraid my preferred kind of angry sex would be too rich in structure, too thematic and too complex to fit the content of the discussion we´re having. So I´d rather not spit around. -
- CommentTimeJul 4th 2008
Marselus wrote
Christodoulides wrote
Marselus wrote
Christodoulides wrote
Moviemusic.com? hostile worlds
Yeah, tell Jordi about that Wait, or was his fault after all?...bah, doesn´t matter, maintitles rules!
Probably; i remember reading some remarks he made about Graeme REvell in moviemusic.com once and while i do agree that he isn't the greatest composer ever, still i wanted to kill him (Jordi)
Hehe..yes, he was kinda more agressive in that forum.
How Zimmer said in Backdraft interview: "Iwas younggggggggg....You are pretensious when you are younnnnnnnng....."
Anyway, I confess i was a little bit too much visceral in that forum, but the people was , like in Filmtracks.com, too elitist.
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Jackman the arrenger of the score? no Zimmer? only Jackman? A least nice to see Zimmer on synthetisers again. He is specially inspired in " A dark knight" track. -
- CommentAuthorfranz_conrad
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
DemonStar wrote
Southall wrote
HZ: Morning Jimbo, what do we need to do today?
<JNH consults his notes>
JNH: Apparently we need to score a two-minute scene. The music must have no discernable features of any kind.
HZ: Holy shit, you mean we've got to write two minutes of drone?
JNH: Yeah
<HZ scratches head>
HZ: Crap. This pressure is too much.
<opens door>
HZ: Mel! Get your ass in here! Tell Ramin to stop washing my car and come in too.
<waits for them to arrive, drenched in sweat>
HZ: I need you to write one minute each of meaningless drone today.
RD: Yay! I can use that new computer program you bought me!
HZ: Come on Jimbo, let's go to the bar.
HZ: Hey James, look what I found! This was something written by a dude called Southall at Maintitles.
JNH: Hmm, hmm, this guy seems to be thinking he's getting some inside stuff. Look at what he says, "Apparently we need to score a two-minute scene. The music must have no discernable features of any kind." Does he think I'm gonna do a Glimmer Man or 300?
HZ: He apparently hasn't listened to Lion King and Waterworld, or played 300 thinking it was them.
JNH: Who's feedin' 'em this rubbish?
HZ: Could be Nolan.
JNH: Come on Z, you think Nolan would spread rumours like that?
HZ: If he's been approached by those what'd-you-call-'ems... ah, "Zimmer haters".
JNH: What do you think of them?
HZ: My heart swells with pity for them. I'll make a melody of it someday.
JNH: I can see them crying "I hope that nightmarish melody never comes!" or "Would be nice if that melody was noteless!"
HZ: It will naturally be like that as it is a theme based on them.
JNH: And since when did Ramin wash your car?
HZ: Wash my car? I would'nt let him even if he offered to! And next they'll say he plays the bagpipes for me too!
JNH: And what about these rumours?
HZ: I'll make the person responsible subject to the kind of music he wants to listen - a 2 min piece with no discernable features of any kind.
Trevor Rabin - Did I hear "no discernable features of any kind". Oh, someone wants Glimmer Man instead of TDK? Pity them, good for me, so it's not a waste after all! I'm comin for ya buddy! *superman fanfare*
Very few defeat Southall in a battle of wits, I'm afraid, and you are not the chosen one.A butterfly thinks therefore I am -
- CommentAuthorPanthera
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
Ralph Kruhm wrote
I agree. And a film music fan, I listen a lot to Zimmer and Williams, because I feel BB works very well as a stand alone piece of music. That makes both of them great composers by your definition, unless you state that your taste is more right than mine.
Which it is...
you are just inviting future arguments -
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008 edited
No, he isn´t. I think he´s joking, so I won´t take that comment of his in any way personal, so there is no need to go any further.
If he´s not joking, however, it just proves what dorks Williams fans are.
(Oh shit, I´m one of them...) -
- CommentAuthorMatt C
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
Guys, the way this thread is going... maybe we should have the mod lock it up until everyone gets a chance to listen to the TDK score? That way, every one can chime in and whether they think TDK is superior to BB, score-wise and such else. (And point out sections in the score to back it up.)
Really people, it's all a matter of opinion. If Erik doesn't like the BB and TDK score, just leave him be. Although I do agree with both sides of the argument.http://unsungfilmscores.blogspot.com/ -- My film/TV/game score review blog -
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
Ralph Kruhm wrote
No, he isn´t. I think he´s joking, so I won´t take that comment of his in any way personal, so there is no need to go any further.
At least we are on the same level about something. Yes, of course I was joking. I was thinking about the wink emoticon but that I thought that's like a comedian laughing at his own joke. I was hoping Ralph would have some sort of sense of humour and see the light of the situation and he did. Bravo!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorPanthera
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008 edited
See? You two can get along. Glad my confusion could bring you two together. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
dgoldwas wrote
Album credits:
Music Composed by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard
Additional Music by Lorne Balfe
Ambient Music Design: Mel Wesson
Music Arranged by Henry Jackman
Music Published by Warner Olive Music LLC (ASCAP)
Album Produced by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard
Album Co-Produced by Alex Gibson and Lorne Balfe
Soloists: Ryeland Allison, Michael Levine, Heitor Pereira, Satnam Ramgotra, and Martin Tillman
Synth Programming: Hans Zimmer and Howard Scarr
Sequencer Programming: Thomas Broderick, Jacob Shea and Noah Sorota
Music Editors: Alex Gibson and Daniel Pinder
Assistant Music Editor: Ryan Rubin
Technical Score Engineers: Peter "Oso" Snell and Stuart Thomas
Technical Assistant: Chris Bacon
Digital Instrument Design: Mark Wherry
Sample Development: Claudius Bruse, Zain Effendi and Michael Hobe
Orchestrators: Bruce Fowler, Jeff Atmajian, Brad Dechter, Elizabeth Finch, Kevin Kaska, Randy Kerber, Suzette Moriarty and Walter Fowler
Orchestra Contractor: Charlotte Matthews
Score Coordinator: Becky Bentham
Music Preparation: Mark Graham, JoAnn Kane Music Service, Los Angeles, CA; Dakota Music, London UK
Score Recorded at Air Lyndhurst, London, UK; Remote Control Productions, Santa Monica, CA; James Newton Howard Studios, Inc., Santa Monica, CA
Music Recorded by Geoff Foster
Assistant Engineer: Chris Barrett
Music Conducted by Matt Dunkley, Bruce Fowler and Gavin Greenaway
Orchestra Leader: Rose Warren-Green
Principal Viola: Peter Late
Principal Cello: Anthony Pleeth
Principal Bass: Mary Scully
Percussion: Frank Ricotto, Gary Kettel and Paul Clarvis
Horn: Richard Watkins
Trumpet: Maurice Murphy
Trombone: Pete Davies
Tuba: Owen Slade
Synthesizers: Hans Zimmer
Piano: James Newton Howard and Simon Chamberlain
Music Production Services: Steven Kofsky
Score Mixed by Alan Meyerson
Score Mixed at Remote Control Productions, Santa Monica, CA
Additional Recording by Jeff Biggers
Assistant Engineers: Katia Lewin and Greg Vines
Album Compilation: Daniel Pinder
Album Mastered by Louie Teran at Marcussen Mastering Studios
Production Coordinator for Has Zimmer: Andrew Zack
Scoring Coordinator for James Newton Howard: Pamela Sollie
Studio Manager for Remote Control Productions: Czarina Russell
Album Business Affairs: Keith Zajic, Marc Cimino and Lisa Margolis
Music Administration for Warner Bros. Pictures: Debi Streeter
Sleeve Art Direction and Design: Steven R. Gilmore
Cripes! Am I missing something or did the likes of Williams, Goldsmith, Barry, Bernstein etc etc need such an army for a single score?
Please enlighten??On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008 edited
Timmer wrote
Cripes! Am I missing something or did the likes of Williams, Goldsmith, Barry, Bernstein etc etc need such an army for a single score?
Please enlighten??
What are you talking about? That seems to be the complete listing for everything relating to the production of the score for the theatrical release and the album(s). -
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Ralph Kruhm wrote
No, he isn´t. I think he´s joking, so I won´t take that comment of his in any way personal, so there is no need to go any further.
At least we are on the same level about something. Yes, of course I was joking. I was thinking about the wink emoticon but that I thought that's like a comedian laughing at his own joke. I was hoping Ralph would have some sort of sense of humour and see the light of the situation and he did. Bravo!
-Erik-
Well, I must admit my heart skipped a beat when I read his joke at first. Sometimes my sort of sense of humour just isn´t enough for the subtleties of life. But Erik might conclude that this is directly connected to me loving Zimmer scores, so I better step away from following that thought. -
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
Will you two just get a room please! -
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008
Timmer wrote
Cripes! Am I missing something or did the likes of Williams, Goldsmith, Barry, Bernstein etc etc need such an army for a single score?
Please enlighten??
I doubt that John Williams performs 80 instruments at the same time, records and engineers the score, programs and performs the synths, masters the album, designs the cover art... -
- CommentTimeJul 5th 2008 edited
Thomas wrote
Timmer wrote
Cripes! Am I missing something or did the likes of Williams, Goldsmith, Barry, Bernstein etc etc need such an army for a single score?
Please enlighten??
I doubt that John Williams performs 80 instruments at the same time, records and engineers the score, programs and performs the synths, masters the album, designs the cover art...
Well Said!
"like Dogs Chasing Cars" I love how every theme appears, specially the entrance of joker's theme after batman's noble theme...