The Dark Knight - Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard

General Discussions » The Dark Knight - Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard (Posts 451 to 480 of 1203)

- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
lp wrote
I think it's sad that you guys keep yapping on about the same point just to waste space. In general, you guys don't like Hans Zimmer's work. Is it really a discussion anymore when there's nothing more to add? There might be a few score that you like, but in general, you guys would have anyone but Hans and his people score movies. So why don't you guys just move on and be done with it. State your opinions about the scores, which you've already made sure everyone knew about it, and move on to other scores that get your boners hard.

How mature! This is a discussion board. Don't like our opinions or the direction of the discussion then get lost.

-Erik-
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Thomas wrote
The interesting point is why only Hans Zimmer gets criticized and not e.g. John Powell.

Honestly, I don't care how many people are involved on a project. Michael Kamen has an army of orchestrators working on Robin Hood and that, IMHO, came out brilliantly. As long as the final product is dynamite then who cares, really? I just don't think Zimmer and his army of composers and orchestrators are as good as Williams and his single orchestrator.

Powell on the other hand, has continuously written dynamite music that is fresh, new and really, really good! I find that he is the perfect link to this more modern sound that Zimmer has developed and the traditional orchestral score. Powell really knows how to write proper orchestral music (Bruce Broughton is even impressed with his stuff) and that's what I truly like about Powell and his army of orchestrators.

-Erik-
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Marselus wrote

Nautilus wrote
And for you: Bruce Wayne theme is heard in Agent of Chaos, in a heroic way (not so obvious like in the End credits from the first film) and in a piano dramatic wa (yes, almost a copy and paste from barbastella

Where?? In "Agent of Chaos"?

Wayne's theme Played Heroically ( Not so cool or obvious than in Antrozous or End Credits ) : 4:22 / 4:43

Wayne's theme played in Piano as in barbastella :5:08
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Erik Woods wrote

Thomas wrote
The interesting point is why only Hans Zimmer gets criticized and not e.g. John Powell.

Powell on the other hand, has continuously written dynamite music that is fresh, new and really, really good! I find that he is the perfect link to this more modern sound that Zimmer has developed and the traditional orchestral score. Powell really knows how to write proper orchestral music (Bruce Broughton is even impressed with his stuff) and that's what I truly like about Powell and his army of orchestrators.

-Erik-

Agree.
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008 edited
A personat note :

These days Im in 2 works. I have to decide If I stay in my actual work where I'm fix (???? is this the word?) but where I can't "grow up" or in a new job where I earn much money and I can't grow up in the "empire".

I'm afraid if I could do the job correctly.

And then I thought...Ey! Did Zimmer stay working in Broken arrow kind of movies??? sure, He was scared with his big epic projects like Gladiator or the thind red line!
- CommentAuthorAntineutrino
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
As long as you don't do a Chill Factor in your new job...
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Thomas wrote

The interesting point is why only Hans Zimmer gets criticized and not e.g. John Powell.

Apparently you haven't been reading the forum.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Antineutrino wrote
As long as you don't do a Chill Factor in your new job...
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Steven wrote

Marselus wrote

Steven wrote
lp, what's with hostility all the time? You're like a Justin 2.0.

DonÂ´t agree. lp elaborates his posts (you may agree or not) while Justin 1.0 simply throws an insult and disappears.

That's why I said 2.0. At least an improvement on the original.

I think I was in a bad mood, and it was like 2 am at night for me too..
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Ralph Kruhm wrote
Well, I think the point is that the score is done. You may like it or hate it, but there is nothing to be done about it. We can endlessly debate whether or not another composer would have come up with something better or no but in the end, producers and directors wonÂ´t listen to our complaints.

So all this discussion is achieving is heighten the frustration of the haters and alienating those who actually like what they are hearing. And if thatÂ´s what they do, you canÂ´t do anything about it. As IÂ´ve tried to say again and again, I feel like being blamed for liking this stuff. There is no explanation (needed), I just like it. And nothing you guys are gonna say will change that. It will just add more and more to the feeling of being flogged to death because of taste, and that sucks like hell.
t,
So I totally understand why people like lp get more and more angry about this negative stuff. Instead of saying "itÂ´s bad" and going away, people return again and again saying how bad it is. ThatÂ´s what our complaints are about. The absolute disability to just let it go, to ignore this topic and leave it to those who like what they hear.

I mean the discussion about what other composers would have done was okay for a few days, but now it drags along as every other aspect does since aeons ago.

The point is you just canÂ´t discuss what you like if every sentence you write is answered by an army of people who try to explain to you why itÂ´s bad music. And after a while, you just give up.

Thank you. It is frustrating to see a thread get expanded 2-3 pages in less than 9 hour just based on hate and explanation and rebuttal of said hate when we've already done it a day, two day, three days ago. I don't have anything against negative criticisms, but why must you waste time repeating the same point ad nauseum without contributing anything new to the discussion? If I wanted to read more constant negativity about Batman/Hans Zimmer/JNH/Blandom, then I'd read FSM instead.
- CommentAuthorlp
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Erik Woods wrote

lp wrote
I think it's sad that you guys keep yapping on about the same point just to waste space. In general, you guys don't like Hans Zimmer's work. Is it really a discussion anymore when there's nothing more to add? There might be a few score that you like, but in general, you guys would have anyone but Hans and his people score movies. So why don't you guys just move on and be done with it. State your opinions about the scores, which you've already made sure everyone knew about it, and move on to other scores that get your boners hard.

How mature! This is a discussion board. Don't like our opinions or the direction of the discussion then get lost.

-Erik-

I don't understand the need to the discuss the bad points of a score by saying that the composer is crappy in general. We have ample proof that Hans Zimmer isn't a bad composer, he's good at what he does. But he's a composer who's music can polarize people, especially people who doesn't like him.

In truth, his music helps the vision of the directors that he works with, and that what he cares about. He can always write something else, but he likes his job and doesn't want to get fired. That's the fact.
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008 edited
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

What about Goldsmith and Alien? additional music and conducting?

I'm just kidding.

A fact: Herrman, Goldsmith, Zimmer and Powell are geniuses!

by the way....Why nobody talks about Joker's suite?? A good discussion about this track it could be more interesting.
- CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008 edited
@ Jordi, regarding JokerÂ´s suite.

As I said before, I think it will work in the movie, and I already start to accept it as something listenable outside the movie. It certainly is an interesting concept, and just because it consists of one or two notes, that doesnÂ´t mean the JokerÂ´s musical identity is boring. IÂ´m getting more and more used to it and see myself even liking it somewhere down the road, but probably not before I saw the movie.
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Nautilus wrote
A fact: Herrman, Goldsmith, Zimmer and Powell are geniuses!

I think Herrmann was a genius, and Goldsmith certainly touched upon moments of genius in his career, but Zimmer and Powell? No, I don't think they're geniuses. Talented, yes, but not geniuses. You really should save that word for composers and people who deserve it Jordi.
- CommentAuthorTimon
- CommentTimeJul 6th 2008
Well, for what it's worth, someone posted the ost on youtube. Ok, the sound quality is bad, but the music is there and everyone who hasn't heard the score can find out what all the fuss is about.
>>> http://www.youtube.com/user/Guestman12

I agree that this music will work in the film, as a generic wall of sound in the background, but for the moment, I can't bring up the slightest interest for anything they came up with. Don't waste your money on this one.
- CommentAuthorPawelStroinski
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
I played the score in the atrocious sound and the atrocious rip of the last track (somebody must have to listen to it like 20 times a day ), but in some ways I actually PREFER the score to Batman Begins - the bigger intensity and somehow more complex orchestrations are an asset.

The Harvey Dent material definitely is a highlight of JNH's career.
http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
PawelStroinski wrote
the bigger intensity and somehow more complex orchestrations are an ass

You nailed it
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
Erik Woods wrote

Thomas wrote
The interesting point is why only Hans Zimmer gets criticized and not e.g. John Powell.

Honestly, I don't care how many people are involved on a project. Michael Kamen has an army of orchestrators working on Robin Hood and that, IMHO, came out brilliantly. As long as the final product is dynamite then who cares, really? I just don't think Zimmer and his army of composers and orchestrators are as good as Williams and his single orchestrator.

Powell on the other hand, has continuously written dynamite music that is fresh, new and really, really good! I find that he is the perfect link to this more modern sound that Zimmer has developed and the traditional orchestral score. Powell really knows how to write proper orchestral music (Bruce Broughton is even impressed with his stuff) and that's what I truly like about Powell and his army of orchestrators.

-Erik-

Well said!
On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
Steven wrote

Nautilus wrote
A fact: Herrman, Goldsmith, Zimmer and Powell are geniuses!

I think Herrmann was a genius, and Goldsmith certainly touched upon moments of genius in his career, but Zimmer and Powell? No, I don't think they're geniuses. Talented, yes, but not geniuses. You really should save that word for composers and people who deserve it Jordi.

Thus speaks a voice of maturity.
On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
Some may hate me for doing this but I thought I'd give the Tumbler Chase another shot this time using a dead serious temp track with no heroic theme and no heroic styled action material. Chris Young was my composer of choice as I think he would have given Batman Begins that modern touch that so many people want to hear in this movie while satisfying traditional old farts like myself with something more symphonic. I also managed to isolate the centre audio track from the film which gave me nothing but sound effects and dialog... for the most part. Therefore, the NEW music is able to blend in better with the dialog and sound effects without drowning them out.

BATMAN BEGINS REDUX PART II - 45.4 MG
music by Christopher Young
http://www.dillusions.net/erik/clips/bb_redux_young.mp4

Enjoy!

-Erik-
host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
- CommentAuthorDemonStar
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
PawelStroinski wrote
I played the score in the atrocious sound and the atrocious rip of the last track (somebody must have to listen to it like 20 times a day ), but in some ways I actually PREFER the score to Batman Begins - the bigger intensity and somehow more complex orchestrations are an asset.

The Harvey Dent material definitely is a highlight of JNH's career.

I agree!
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
Movie reviews mentions Zimmer/Howard score.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_dark_knight/

Nolan has done another masterpiece!What a surprise

(Im enjoying more and more this score...What was dissapointing in Beggins is really a own world in The Dark Knight)
- CommentAuthorNautilus
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
DemonStar wrote

The Harvey Dent material definitely is a highlight of JNH's career.

I agree!

Yeap, And Im sad to say probably (and this is the first time I said that) a solo approach by Howard could have been much better than Zimmer's vision.
- CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Some may hate me for doing this but I thought I'd give the Tumbler Chase another shot this time using a dead serious temp track with no heroic theme and no heroic styled action material. Chris Young was my composer of choice as I think he would have given Batman Begins that modern touch that so many people want to hear in this movie while satisfying traditional old farts like myself with something more symphonic. I also managed to isolate the centre audio track from the film which gave me nothing but sound effects and dialog... for the most part. Therefore, the NEW music is able to blend in better with the dialog and sound effects without drowning them out.

BATMAN BEGINS REDUX PART II - 45.4 MG
music by Christopher Young
http://www.dillusions.net/erik/clips/bb_redux_young.mp4

Enjoy!

-Erik-

Thanks again for doing this. YouÂ´re really investing a lot of time here, Erik...

So... my opinion? Your new approach worked much better than the Elfman version. I would even say that if Nolan wanted to do BB in this style, your choice would have been great. Actually, it was so good that I had to rewatch the original scene again just to give a proper opinion.

(For everyone else who wants to compare, you can find it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvgfOUHAzLs)

Compared to the HZ/JNH version I am sorry to say that I still prefer the original (but everything else would have surprised you, wouldnÂ´t it?). I find ZimmerÂ´s trademark approach to a chase sequence like this to be more satisfying, tense and gripping, especially during the second half, where the actual chase happens. For me, it just sounds more energy driven than the classic approach, so still, I would choose Zimmer.

But as I said, you did very well with your newer and less thematic version. The scene retains its realistic approach and is very gripping. I am actually amazed about your editing. Very, very well done.
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
Erik Woods wrote
Some may hate me for doing this but I thought I'd give the Tumbler Chase another shot this time using a dead serious temp track with no heroic theme and no heroic styled action material. Chris Young was my composer of choice as I think he would have given Batman Begins that modern touch that so many people want to hear in this movie while satisfying traditional old farts like myself with something more symphonic. I also managed to isolate the centre audio track from the film which gave me nothing but sound effects and dialog... for the most part. Therefore, the NEW music is able to blend in better with the dialog and sound effects without drowning them out.

BATMAN BEGINS REDUX PART II - 45.4 MG
music by Christopher Young
http://www.dillusions.net/erik/clips/bb_redux_young.mp4

Enjoy!

-Erik-

HOLY CRAP! Spider-Man III, right?

If I were rich enough, I'd pay you to re-score (perm-track?) the whole film! That works SO much better than Zimmer's garbage.

I'm still dumbfounded that Nolan doesn't want the new Batman to have a more memorable thematic statement for the character... he's the friggin BATMAN FOR CHRIST SAKE! He dresses up in a super cool bat suit, lives in a mansion with a friggin BATCAVE, and goes around saving people in a friggin city called GOTHAM in a friggin BATMOBILE! If that doesn't deserve a big thematic statement, what the F*CK does!!??
- CommentAuthorDemetris
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
CHRIS YOUNG is the man. Should shut some mouths contra-Young.
Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
- CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
As much as I thought YoungÂ´s action music was fitting to the scene, I totally fail to see how that was more thematic than the Zimmer stuff, Steven. Actually, thatÂ´s one of the things that I like about the Zimmer version, the action track has a much better recognisable pattern and structure than the Young version. You may call it simpler, but to me, simple is better in that case. Maybe thatÂ´s because IÂ´m generally more suited to Zimmerian structured noise than to a pure orchestral approach going a bit too wild with chaotic noise. Or, more to the point. I prefer ZimmerÂ´s chaos to WilliamsÂ´ chaos, if you get what I mean.
- CommentAuthorSteven
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
Ralph Kruhm wrote
As much as I thought YoungÂ´s action music was fitting to the scene, I totally fail to see how that was more thematic than the Zimmer stuff, Steven. Actually, thatÂ´s one of the things that I like about the Zimmer version, the action track has a much better recognisable pattern and structure than the Young version. You may call it simpler, but to me, simple is better in that case. Maybe thatÂ´s because IÂ´m generally more suited to Zimmerian structured noise than to a pure orchestral approach going a bit too wild with chaotic noise. Or, more to the point. I prefer ZimmerÂ´s chaos to WilliamsÂ´ chaos, if you get what I mean.

I don't think it was more thematic, but it made it more exciting IMO. My point wasn't really about that particular scene with that particular music, just a general dumbfounded stance on Nolan's choice of film music and those who defend it. I'll say it again:

he's the friggin BATMAN FOR CHRIST SAKE! He dresses up in a super cool bat suit, lives in a mansion with a friggin BATCAVE, and goes around saving people in a friggin city called GOTHAM in a friggin BATMOBILE! If that doesn't deserve a big thematic statement, what the F*CK does!!??
- CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008 edited
Ah, I see...

Well, I still think ZimmerÂ´s score was full of thematic material perfectly suited to what Nolan had in mind. I guess a more regular listening would have helped you finding it in the score, but if the general style wonÂ´t fit your taste, itÂ´s a lost cause, of course.

Thinking all about it, I just found something rather interesting... I think what turned me away from ErikÂ´s first attempt was ElfmanÂ´s theme which got the whole thing into a rather ridiculous scene, because it just isnÂ´t a heroic scene, for me, itÂ´s a desperate scene, Batman desperately trying to get Rachel into safety while being hunted by the cops. So I just played the second half of the chase scene (after they leave the roof) together with Howard ShoreÂ´s End Titles from The Fly, a much more dramatic theme, more driven and less over the top as ElfmanÂ´s. And guess what, it kept the drama within the scene, it was great to watch that, and I think this could have been even better than ZimmerÂ´s stuff in theatres. So, there you are, me admitting.
- CommentAuthorBregt
- CommentTimeJul 7th 2008
I might skip this score. Haven't heard it but reading, well, scrolling through this topic, made me realize I don't want to think so much and just forget about the score. Makes so much sense.
Kazoo

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The Dark Knight - Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard