The Dark Knight - Hans Zimmer & James Newton Howard

Justin 2.0 Mode Activated!!!! >>>>

That I absolutely believe to be true. Hans and James could have done a different score too with the Molossus theme more upfront and centered, with a less intensive focus on ambience.



It's his movie, his choice.



Yeah.



I appreciate your opinion, but it's old x infinity and you're not adding anything new to your biased argument. And you forgot James Newton Howard.



I thought it worked quite well with the Joker character that Jack Nicholson was putting forth. Danny Elfman took it more literal with the clown aspect.

Crazy... but I think I agree with you.



Of course it is... but I have every right to disagree with the way he makes his movies,,, or at least the way he handles the music in his film... especially the Batman films.



First of all, I am a very open-minded film music fan. My hate towards Zimmer's music isn't because it's fashionable. I've been listening to his music for years and I have a ton of Zimmer scores in my collection. My opinions concerning Zimmer are completely my own. Bad music is just that... bad music. Again, I don't care who wrote it. If it stinks, it stinks... and too me Zimmer's music stinks most of all. However, he does suprise me from time to time and that is a real pleasure. Earlier on in his career I was a big fan. For instance, I played The Rock, Crimson Tide, Backdraft and Rain Man a lot. And the Milan compilation album with music from Zimmer's early years scoring British films is a delight. I still continue to play those scores but I grew up and fell in love with a more symphonic, classic approach to film scores so those will always catch my ear before any Hans Zimmer score will.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. It seems you want to put the full blame on the directors and producers for the blandness of some Zimmer scores. I will repeat this one more time... I do like a pile of Zimmer scores but I think he is way better then what he was told to come up with for Batman. As for forgetting JNH... dood, Zimmers voice almost completely drowns out JNH's. Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are mostly Zimmer styled scores.

-Erik-

No doubt. I like his vision of Batman and can understand why the resulting music is such. I tend to judge a score based on how it function in the movie, which would then affect how I view it as listening experience. As a theatrical experience, it's perfectly not overdone.



Thematically, maybe. I know that the "Myotis" track was done by JNH and it sounded like Hans too. I do know that once the sound scheme templates are agreed between the two composer, it's not hard to replicate it.

I don't want a score that hits ALL the sych points, either... but I do think that mickey mousing and having the music follow along with the action is a die art form. So when there is a change in emotion or by speeding up the tempo and adding some more complex layers to the music to make a certain point in a scene more suspenseful... that what I would like to hear. A constant drone for 5 minutes doesn't take any special skill to produce.

-Erik-

You described one of my favorite action tracks of all time... "The Desert Chase" from Raiders. The building and building of the Raiders rhythm starting half way through the chase is truly brilliant. I love how they start off nice a slow but Williams continues to slowing speed things along until the ultimate demise of the Nazi underneath the truck. And even all the sync hits in the first half of the track are dynamite as well. A great combo of two different approaches to the action track.

-Erik-

Interesting. Yeah, that´s an amazing track and, as you said, a great combo of approaches.

But I only love it because it´s so long and stays with each seperate rhythm long enough to get to something. As a one or two minute track this would have been... not so good.

In an ideal romantic world, you'd be right. For good or for bad, you're very wrong in the real world of money and business.

Indeed, i can safely say that for Erik as well and for myself too. I can't stand stuff i consider to be bad music either, no matter where it comes from. I wonder if you LP and Ralph (you come in mind now, nothing personal ) actually have a ZImmer score that you despise?



Indeed. JNH runs behind big Z in this and the previous collaboration they had on Batman, it is evident on every single note and anyone can tell.

As amazing as it might sound to you all, filmmaking tends to be a collaborative experience. While Nolan is certainly responsible for the end result of his film, it's not true that HZ and JNH 'merely did his bidding, and would have been fired if they dared propose something other than Nolan originally envisioned'.

If every composer who was asked to do something they didn't want to do (by the director) left the project, there would be a LOT of unemployed composers in Hollywood. Similarly, though, if every director got EXACTLY what he wanted, without considering the composers' suggestions on what might improve the film, you'd end up with a lot of crap.

I'm sure one could argue that is the case with most films, but my point is that it's a collaboration and while the director usually is responsible for the direction of a film's score, it's the composer who ultimately composes it. (That I have to write that blindingly obviously comment is sad.)

D, if you think about it, a lot of the score from Lost is actually mickey mousing.

Was talking about the traditional mickey mousing

In the movie? Or on album?



Based on the album(s)? Or on the score in the respective movies? Or based on an idea that JNH's contribution is merely of the orchestral kind? Or ......

No, I'm not the Norse God of Thunder. I wasn't being facetious. Lots of Zimmer's work doesn't jive completely with the movie, but they are unique to the movie and most of the time works well on album as purely listening experiences. The Batman stuff doesn't work very well on album at all, but they suits the movie superbly, with the exception of Molossus which works only as a standalone piece away from the film.



So you answered the question of "Or based on an idea that JNH's contribution is merely of the orchestral kind?". Thanks.

No one held a gun to his head (at least, as far as I know).



Oh certainly, and it's a shame when that does happen. Temp love is never a good thing, and I'd be the first to stand up and say that it's disheartening when a composer is unable to take a stand against a director who insists on sticking (or ripping off) the temp. But you have to pick your battles, and sometimes it's not worth it.



Indeed - and since a lot of composers have bills to pay, etc., sometimes they do what needs to be done.



Wow, project much? I meant that the fact I had to write that a director DIRECTS and a composer COMPOSES is kinda sad.