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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2008
    Well, the Imperial March being the notable exception, of course.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2008
    Mate, Hitler was Wagner's biggest fan; ever.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2008 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    Mate, Hitler was Wagner's biggest fan; ever.


    Wagner wasn't partial to jews either.

    I think Richard Strauss ran away from Germany when he found out Adolf was a fan of his?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    Mate, Hitler was Wagner's biggest fan; ever.


    Like Tim said: Hitler wasn't into Wagner's MUSIC much at all: he DID certainly love the Rings due to its über-Teutonic epic virtues, but as far as music went, Hitler was STRAUSS' biggest fan ever (Die Lüstige Witwe being his favourite).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  1. But Luestige Witwe was not Strauss', but Franz Lehar's.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  2. Hitler actually did have quite a taste for Wagner's music, and in his early political career, Wagner's children were among his ardent supporters. Ironically his favourite performance of the music by Wagner featured a Jewish conductor. (I believe - and this is exceptionally ironic - that as a younger man Hitler enjoyed a bit of Mahler too.)

    Richard Strauss was a favourite of Hitler's for a while, but even he lost favour at times. Alex Ross recounts the interesting history of Hilter's approval for the man in THE REST OF NOISE.

    I see, by the way, that Godwin's Law has applied yet again in this thread. biggrin
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  3. What is Goodwin's Law?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  4. Godwin's. wink

    "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    franz_conrad wrote
    (I believe - and this is exceptionally ironic - that as a younger man Hitler enjoyed a bit of Mahler too.)


    Really?! Wow! May I ask where you got this information from? confused
  5. It is common knowledge that Hitler was fascinated by Wagner’s music. There is, however, more to the story than can be found in the Hitler literature. His first trip to Vienna, in 1906, hardly rates a mention in the standard biographies, and yet its influence on such a vague young mind must have been profound. Anyone who knows the Viennese musical scene of that period has to be curious for more detail. For example, who was the conductor for that May 8th performance of “Tristan”? Brigitte Hamann, a scholar who has written the authoritative study of Hitler’s early years in Vienna, states that the name of the conductor cannot be found. She apparently did not bother to ask the Vienna Opera. The company informed me that the conductor was Gustav Mahler. Therefore, Hitler saw in front of him, on one of his first nights in Vienna, the charismatic Jewish emperor of musical Vienna. This lends credence to a surprising claim by Hitler’s boyhood friend August Kubizek to the effect that Hitler had “the greatest admiration” for Mahler in his youth. Kubizek also tells us that Hitler’s veneration of Wagner was so fierce that he committed to memory large portions of Wagner’s famously turgid prose.


    http://www.therestisnoise.com/2004/05/wagner.html
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    franz_conrad wrote
    It is common knowledge that Hitler was fascinated by Wagner’s music. There is, however, more to the story than can be found in the Hitler literature. His first trip to Vienna, in 1906, hardly rates a mention in the standard biographies, and yet its influence on such a vague young mind must have been profound. Anyone who knows the Viennese musical scene of that period has to be curious for more detail. For example, who was the conductor for that May 8th performance of “Tristan”? Brigitte Hamann, a scholar who has written the authoritative study of Hitler’s early years in Vienna, states that the name of the conductor cannot be found. She apparently did not bother to ask the Vienna Opera. The company informed me that the conductor was Gustav Mahler. Therefore, Hitler saw in front of him, on one of his first nights in Vienna, the charismatic Jewish emperor of musical Vienna. This lends credence to a surprising claim by Hitler’s boyhood friend August Kubizek to the effect that Hitler had “the greatest admiration” for Mahler in his youth. Kubizek also tells us that Hitler’s veneration of Wagner was so fierce that he committed to memory large portions of Wagner’s famously turgid prose.


    http://www.therestisnoise.com/2004/05/wagner.html


    Thanks! beer That's very interesting, considering the kind of man Hitler became later, despising and killing the Jews.
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      CommentAuthorDavid
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008 edited
    What's this all mean when McCain has used Christopher Lennertz music in his ads, and has been introduced at rallies by Goldsmith's "Rudy" and "Air Force One"? wink
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    I find it interesting that this thread went from Obama/McCain to Hitler/Wagner/Strauss
    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008 edited
    sdtom wrote
    I find it interesting that this thread went from Obama/McCain to Hitler/Wagner/Strauss


    As do I. LOL biggrin
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    What is Goodwin's Law?


    Goodwin's Law

    To destroy all nazi's by means of music, this will employ the forces of 633 Squadron, The Battle of Britain, Where Eagles Dare and topped off with Force 10 From Navarone.

    biggrin wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  6. sdtom wrote
    I find it interesting that this thread went from Obama/McCain to Hitler/Wagner/Strauss
    Thomas smile


    This is of course, Godwin's Law. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    I remember the film Swing Kids and how much the nazi's hated benny goodman.
    Therefore it should be called the Goodman law.
    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    And I'm also grateful that Steiner and Korngold were big fans.

    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    Thanks for proving my point Michael! Oh and i quite liked that law thingy!
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008 edited
    sdtom wrote
    I remember the film Swing Kids and how much the nazi's hated benny goodman.
    Therefore it should be called the Goodman law.
    Thomas smile



    applause
    Excellent! I'm keeping THAT one! biggrin


    Hmmmm, I was sure Wagner endured far more in Nazi legend due to his political and mythical subjects, rather than his music. I'm still not entirely convinced it was Wagner's music that moved Hitler so, as even the examples above state his predeliction towards Wagner's texts and concepts of nationalist Teutonic heroism (Parsifal; Lohengrin; Siegfried).

    To my embarassment I confused the head of the Reichsmusikkammer with what I thought was Hitler favourite composer. Some further investigation yields that there is no indication that Franz Léhar (the actual composer of the aforementioned Die Lustige Witwe) was Hitler's favourite composer, but Die Lustige Witwe WAS his favourite operetta.

    Oh well. Live and learn. dizzy
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    Whenever I need to know anything about AH we know who to come to.
    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    Protecting the public interest in any economic "bailout"

    Dear Friend,

    The U.S. government has been turned into an engine that accelerates the wealth upwards into the hands of a few. The Wall Street bailout, the Iraq War, military spending, tax cuts to the rich, and a for-profit health care system are all about the acceleration of wealth upwards. And now, the American people are about to pay the price of the collapse of the $513 trillion Ponzi scheme of derivatives. Yes, that’s half a quadrillion dollars. Our first trillion dollar compression bandage will hardly stem the hemorrhaging of an unsustainable Ponzi scheme built on debt "de-leverages."

    Does anyone seriously think that our public and private debts of some $45 trillion will be paid? That the administration's growth of the federal debt from $5.6 trillion to $9.8 trillion while borrowing another trillion dollars from Social Security has nothing to do with this? Does anyone not see that when we spend nearly $16,000 for every family of four in our society for the military each year that we are heading over the cliff?

    This is a debt crisis, not a credit crisis. Just as FDR had to save capitalism after Wall Street excesses, we have to re-invigorate our economy with real - not imaginary - growth. It does not address the never-ending war on the middle class.

    The same corporate interests that profited from the closing of U.S. factories, the movement of millions of jobs out of America, the off-shoring of profits, the out-sourcing of workers, the crushing of pension funds, the knocking down of wages, the cancellation of health care benefits, the sub-prime lending are now rushing to Washington to get money to protect themselves.

    The double standard is stunning: their profits are their profits, but their losses are our losses.

    This bailout will not bring real jobs back to America. It will not bring back jobs that make things. It does not rebuild our schools, streets, neighborhoods, parks or bridges. The major product of this financial economy is now debt. Industrial capitalism has been destroyed.
    In the next few days I will push for a plan that includes equity for every American in any taxpayer investment in this so-called bail-out plan. Since the bailout will cost each and every American about $2,300, I have proposed the creation of a United States Mutual Trust Fund, which will take control of $700 billion in stock assets, convert those assets to shares, and distribute $2,300 worth of shares to new individual savings accounts in the name of each and every American.
    I will also insist that all of the following issues be considered in whatever Congress passes:

    Reinstatement of the provisions of Glass-Steagall, which forbade speculation
    Re-regulation of the finance, insurance, and real estate industries
    Accountability on the part of those who took the companies down:
    a) resignations of management
    b) givebacks of executive compensation packages
    c) limitations on executive compensation
    d) admission by CEO's of what went wrong and how, prior to any government bailout

    Demands for transparencey
    a) with respect to analyzing the transactions which took the companies down
    b) with respect to Treasury's dealings with the companies pre and post-bailout
    An equity position for the taxpayers
    a) some form of ownership of assets
    Some credible formula for evaluating the price of the assets that the government is buying.
    A sunset clause on the legislation
    Full public disclosure by members of Congress of assets held, with possible conflicts put in blind trust.
    A ban on political campaign contributions from officers of corporations receiving bailouts
    A requirement that 2008 cycle candidates return political contributions to officers and representatives of corporations receiving bailouts
    And, most importantly, some mechanism for direct assistance to homeowners saddled with unreasonable or unmanageable mortgages, as well as protection for renters who have lived up to their obligation but fall victim to financial tragedy when the property they live in undergoes foreclosure.

    These are just some thoughts on the run. You will hear more from me tomorrow.

    Interesting comments from congressman Dennis Kucinich
    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    sdtom wrote

    This is a debt crisis, not a credit crisis. Just as FDR had to save capitalism after Wall Street excesses, we have to re-invigorate our economy with real - not imaginary - growth.


    SPOT
    ON
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    What I thought too!
    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!
  7. Martijn wrote
    sdtom wrote

    This is a debt crisis, not a credit crisis. Just as FDR had to save capitalism after Wall Street excesses, we have to re-invigorate our economy with real - not imaginary - growth.


    SPOT
    ON


    But for that to ever work, you'd have to take away the systematic biases towards debt financing over equity financing in many parts of the world (e.g. Australia). It simply doesn't pay to NOT build on leverage in the good times given the tax incentive structures set up in Australia.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    The fact that it pays to do so, in no way makes it less stupid in the long run, which is exactly the problem: the quick buck has become commonplace in a commodities market, rather than a developing industries one.

    It's an unavoidable side effect, but one that should by no means be taken for granted.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  8. It's only stupid if you bet more than you can afford to lose. Or if you do bet the farm, and you actually get caught out, then people will care about your stupidity. Those who pulled out at the right time made a motza, and for their clients, the stupidity of leverage is not apparent.

    Of course, whether anyone has been left unexposed with all the counterparty risk going on is a factor.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2008
    I haven't met the business yet that won betting a country's economy. By its very definition it's more than you can afford to lose.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  9. Believe you me, some have been making a lot of money off the events of the last couple of weeks. Private interests and social interests are not so inseperably linked.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2008
    This man makes sense.
    Thomas smile
    listen to more classical music!