Just plain STUPID

Word. There shouldn't be any excuse for stupidity.



Hard work you say? I call it being retarded



Why should those people try and train wild animals? Wild animals aren't supposed to live with people under any circumstances. It's plain stupid and comes out of pure arrogance to try and do that, plus it's always done via suppression and abuse of those animals. Those are methods are pretty cruel.

Earning a living from doing animal tricks with extremely small risks involved isn't stupid as far as I can see. Feel free to call it that though.

That said, even it it was, I don't support maiming of stupid people. It's a bit sharia lawy to call it justice when people get horribly maimed for minor offenses.




Personally, bull fighting or elephant training gets my blood boiling much more than these crocodiles. As far as I can see they're pretty much untrained and the tricks doesn't seem violent or bloody. Bull fighting on the other hand consists of a bull being tortured to death. Elephant training is frequently done by beating the animal into submission.



I'm sure the word "accident" wasn't the best word. Still, I don't see your point. I'm talking statistics here. If there's a 1 in a 100.000 chance of being killed in a crocodile show and 1 in a 100.000 chance of being killed parachuting, the level of risk taking involved is the same, no matter if the former case involved an animal feeling provoked.

That said, I'm not sure crocodiles feel provoked. They're wired very differently than mammals, and work much more by instinct rather than feelings. This is what makes these tricks possible, and why people are amazed by them, because their behaviour can seem so counterintuitive to us.

Peter

Well, call me crazy, but I still say that a guy who repeatedly taps a CROCODILE on its nose for the enjoyment of others deserves what comes to him.

I never argued otherwise. These people are taking a risk, and I'm not surprised when they get hurt. Same thing if one signs up to the army or snowboards down a mountain. They are knowingly taking risks. But realizing this fact doesn't mean that I think they got what they deserved, it doesn't mean that I feel glee when they get hurt and it doesn't mean I will point and laugh when it happens. I consider such attitudes primitive and medieval, and this video with the comedic music playing while another human being is being torn to shreds, I find disgusting.

Peter

That's exactly why it's a good example. It would be a bad analogy, sure. But then Martijn wasn't using it analogously!

First of all, two issues are being conflated here. There's the risk assessment (i.e. were they stupid?) and then there's the ethical assessment (i.e. is it wrong to keep these crocs captive and do tricks with them?). The mountaineering example was brought up to address the risks involved. Therefore your reply doesn't address the point made.

Second of all, these crocs aren't being trained or tortured. If you think otherwise, you'd have to provide some evidence. They are certainly out of their natural habitat sure, but so is every house cat in the world. On top of that, it's pretty damn difficult establishing how the crocs feel about the situation. What I gather from their behaviour, they aren't exactly emotionally complex creatures. Unlike the cows and pigs we mass-produce and consume on a regular basis, and seemingly have no problem with, I doubt crocs get depressed or suffer emotionally. Of course I can't know for certain, but even if they do, I think your pritorities are a bit off (to put it mildly).

My risk assessment is: The risks are low, hence they aren't really being stupid.
My ethical assessment is: Not a show I'd go watch, as I find it distasteful, but not something I'd go hysterical-animal-rights-activist over either. As a meat eater I'd be a damn hypocrit if I started getting worked up about these crocodiles and their lives of semi-luxury.

Peter

I think you're under-intellectualising the issue. Even though the crocodile-playing looks stupid and ill-considered, these people are professionals. They're taking advantage of some curious phenonemon in crocodile behaviour, and they are making an extremely low-risk activity seem haphazard and high-risk, thereby earning money to make a living. Of course if the only video you've ever seen is the one were it went wrong, instead of the millions where it didn't, it just appears stupid.

Peter

They make careers out of it. Some people have worked for decades doing that trick several times every day. Hence low-risk.

Peter

Statistically, holding a 6 shooter to your head with one bullet in it is relatively low-risk. I still wouldn't do it.

Yes, thank you Cpt. Obvious.

I think you might have missed my point though.... STICKING YOUR ARM IN A CROCODILE'S MOUTH IS NOT LOW-RISK.

It just isn't. Statistics or not.

Intuitively it looks high risk. But if the trick is done properly, it's extremely low risk. Otherwise people wouldn't be able to make careers out of it.

Peter

Not PERFECTLY low-risk, but what Peter and me say is that if you know how to do it and do it right, the chances of being maimed are minimal.

The idiot did it either totally wrong or just had bad luck. I don't think it's particularly SMART to have that job or, for that matter, ETHICAL, but Peter convinced me that if done the right way, the risk taken by the person is low.

Well, you can't argue that.

Counterintuitive? Yes. Reality? Yes... if done by a professional.

Of course, you can always research these shows if you want to know more, instead of putting your fingers in your ears while chanting "it's not real, it's not real, it's not real".

Peter