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Recent Viewing Part IV
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- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016
Nah, don't need to. I know the extent of Bay's skills. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016
The hate for Michael Bay films on this board borders on the ridiculous. Even moreso the hate for the man himself. He's much more intelligent and on top of his craft than people give him credit for. Think it's easy to helm something big like Transformers? I wouldn't know where to begin."considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016
No one would accuse him of being lazy. But his films display a man with the mentality of a horny 12 year old. That's fine, I'm glad he has his fans. Bright colours and noisy explosions are bound to attract the masses. But those, mercifully few, who suggest his films are more than insipid popcorn films seem unwilling to avoid embarrassment.
I enjoy McDonalds, but I don't tend to write poorly-written, lengthy articles informing how food critics have got it all wrong. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016 edited
For me, the topic is getting a bit boring, to be honest -- which is why I don't invest as much in my defense as I used to. A bit like those "Did you know that James Horner copied himself throughout his career?"-type topics.
There will always be people who reduce him to mindless explosions, 'he's only doing it for the money' and whatnot, and then there are some of us who enjoy and appreciate how he plays with superficiality with his own, very unique style. A proper postmodern auteur who revels in subversive cinema, if you will. If one doesn't see that, or get that, that's fine -- but it means all the more pleasure for those of us who do.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016
Postmodern. There it is. The most damming praise you could give Bay, and I didn't have to say a thing! -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016 edited
Well I can appreciate any director with a clear sense of style, much more than those without any sort of style at all. There's too many of them already in Hollywood.
I like Bay's style as much as Tarantino's style, or Spielberg's style, or De Palma's style. They each have something unique to say in cinema, content-wise very different from each other, but I see how they approach the visual medium in interesting ways. So Bay's films are less intelligent than Spielberg's... but I'd be lying if they ain't as entertaining. Once again, my view on things.
And yes, this 'tiresome' debate remains as engaging as it has ever been."considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016
And yet debate you do. (But to your credit you don't seem to push it as far as Thor.)
In postmodernism, "anything can mean anything", so of course Michael Bay is a genius. A cookbook could contain deep moral wisdom by this light. It's nonsense. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016 edited
Steven wrote
And yet debate you do. (But to your credit you don't seem to push it as far as Thor.)
In postmodernism, "anything can mean anything", so of course Michael Bay is a genius.
I was referring to the more concrete postmodern aspect of 'surface' and irony and the way you can use that to say something with depth. "Anything can mean anything" is not an exclusively postmodern concept (and it's so vague anyway that it has little meaning).I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016 edited
I generally agree with Giles here. Bay is doing technically advanced popcorn cinema and there is nothing wrong about that. "Postmodernism" and "auteur" are not words that I would choose in this context. In difference to Spielberg, Bay aims exclusivity at a young audience. It's the "PS4" generation and Bay takes that into account. Spielberg on the other side often followed the "Disney-formula" of family entertainment.
Again, if I intend to watch a movie that gives me something worthwhile to reflect upon I don't turn to Bay. Which doesn't matter since there are enough auteur directors around to satisfy that need. For careless escapism I'll watch Bay's films any day.
VolkerBach's music is vibrant and inspired. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016
Thor wrote
A proper postmodern auteur who revels in subversive cinema, if you will. If one doesn't see that, or get that, that's fine -- but it means all the more pleasure for those of us who do.
I suppose for me his shtick just isn't that interesting.
And I wonder if you can you call his work intentionally subversive when it:
1) Is such haphazard filmmaking
2) Uses a juvenile sensibility as a means to financial mega-success
But hey, on a completely different note, I saw Sunset Boulevard for the first time last night. Talk about a movie where everything works -- works well and works like it's supposed to. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016 edited
Seeing these dismissals and reduction of his output is nothing new (as I said, it has a lot in common with the Horner debate). I encounter it everywhere. It's also something that comes naturally with most extremely successful filmmakers. So I really just brush it off and move on. I feel I possess a key to understanding and enjoying his work and his aesthetic that these critics don't, and that is really all that matters. It's unlikely I'll ever convince these critics to identify these qualities, just as I will never accept the dismissals and reductions. Hence I've kinda tired of the old debate.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016
Captain Future wrote
I generally agree with Giles here. Bay is doing technically advanced popcorn cinema and there is nothing wrong about that. "Postmodernism" and "auteur" are not words that I would choose in this context. In difference to Spielberg, Bay aims exclusivity at a young audience. It's the "PS4" generation and Bay takes that into account. Spielberg on the other side often followed the "Disney-formula" of family entertainment.
Again, if I intend to watch a movie that gives me something worthwhile to reflect upon I don't turn to Bay. Which doesn't matter since there are enough auteur directors around to satisfy that need. For careless escapism I'll watch Bay's films any day.
Volker
I am aboard your train of thought."considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G. -
- CommentAuthorEdmund Meinerts
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016 edited
I prefer careless escapism that isn't insultingly stupid and sexist and occasionally racist and obnoxiously juvenile...but hey, maybe that's just me. -
- CommentTimeMay 30th 2016
Bay is, as you imply, a juvenile. He laughs at, not with. Again, that's fine. I don't enjoy it, but some people do. He clearly knows how to tell people what to do, but a deep and thoughtful artist he is not. -
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2016
And he never claimed to be one. Not everything has to speak to one's intelligence or artistic senses. It's just whether one takes it seriously or not. And I do not, it's just mindless fun. With an occasional good score underneath."considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G. -
- CommentAuthorEdmund Meinerts
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2016 edited
Once again, I draw a line between fun mindlessness and offensive mindlessness. Bay is the latter, not the former.
But we are agreed on the scores. -
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2016
You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.Bach's music is vibrant and inspired. -
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2016
Thanks, Obi. -
- CommentTimeMay 31st 2016
You're welcome.Bach's music is vibrant and inspired. -
- CommentTimeJun 1st 2016
The day I'd be offended by works like Bay's is probably the same day I'll do my first hadj.
Attributing all kinds of philosophical and artistic values to his explosions though does make me raise a bit of an eyebrow.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeJun 1st 2016 edited
True, but I think something can be insulting without necessarily being offended by it. His stereotyping of gay people is insulting ('he laughs at, not with'), but it doesn't in the least offend me. I just think he's a moron. -
- CommentTimeJun 2nd 2016
J. Flaherty wrote
Thor wrote
A proper postmodern auteur who revels in subversive cinema, if you will. If one doesn't see that, or get that, that's fine -- but it means all the more pleasure for those of us who do.
I suppose for me his shtick just isn't that interesting.
And I wonder if you can you call his work intentionally subversive when it:
1) Is such haphazard filmmaking
2) Uses a juvenile sensibility as a means to financial mega-success
But hey, on a completely different note, I saw Sunset Boulevard for the first time last night. Talk about a movie where everything works -- works well and works like it's supposed to.
Waxman knew exactly what he was doing with the music as well as Billy Wilder with the film. What a slam on Hollywood in every way. Really powerful. Wilder didn't realize that it would happen to him later in his life.
Tomlisten to more classical music! -
- CommentTimeJun 2nd 2016
Thanks, Tom. I'd rather discuss Wilder and SUNSET BOULEVARD (or anything, really) than the trite Bay debate.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJun 2nd 2016
Sunset Boulevard is one of those classics that I've yet to see.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeJun 2nd 2016
Timmer wrote
Sunset Boulevard is one of those classics that I've yet to see.
It is fairly low on explosions, though!'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentTimeJun 2nd 2016
I saw SUNSET BOULEVARD ages ago, so I can't remember much other than some images -- and I obviously have the score by my favourite Golden Age composer.
Otherwise, though, I need to see more Billy Wilder (I've only seen SUNSET BOULEVARD, THE APARTMENT, DOUBLE INDEMNITY, THE LOST WEEKEND, SOME LIKE IT HOT and bits of STALAG 17).I am extremely serious. -
- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeJun 2nd 2016
Martijn wrote
Timmer wrote
Sunset Boulevard is one of those classics that I've yet to see.
It is fairly low on explosions, though!
Oh dear!? Has it got any car chases? I might still watch it if it has car chases.On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentTimeJun 2nd 2016
Timmer wrote
Martijn wrote
Timmer wrote
Sunset Boulevard is one of those classics that I've yet to see.
It is fairly low on explosions, though!
Oh dear!? Has it got any car chases? I might still watch it if it has car chases.
Bring back rear-projection car chases. With the driver moving the steering wheel a tad too eagerly."considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G. -
- CommentTimeJun 2nd 2016
Rear projection was actually used extensively in Pablo Larraín's NERUDA, which I saw at Cannes this year. But then again, it was part of the 'pastiche'/meta style of the film.I am extremely serious. -
- CommentTimeJun 3rd 2016
Thor do you remember Buster Keaton playing cards in the waxwork sequence with the silent movie stars? How he got DeMille to be in the film was the carrot of a Cadillac. And von Stroheim, who was the butler was a famous silent director. The Waxman score is a crowning achievement in his career.listen to more classical music!